Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment I'm curious about WMI...

Hi all,

I know this question has been asked before, but I'll ask again!

Our ds10 was tested last fall using the WISC-IV and got widely diverging scores.:

VCI

similarities 18
Vocabulary 18
Comprehension 13

PRI

Block Design 11
Picture Concepts 14
Matrix Reasoning 14

WMI

Digit Span 13
Letter-Number 12

Processing

Coding 6
Symbol Search 8

I have always felt him to be a LOG of 4, and this holds true even after this assessement.

What do these scores mean??? How can a boy who learns as easily as breathing and doesn't forget ANYTHING get such low working memory and processing speeds??

He was Top of the Country on the SCAT math when he was 8 (he missed one question - only two in verbal) and is currently at about the 11th grade or so according to the Lexile screen. Even though he's in a Gifted school, he hasn't learned much academically this year that I can tell.

If more testing were done, would the SB5 be a more useful instrument?

thanks for reading, and I know this is a familiar question.

I think this profile is typical of kids who are gifted and perhaps 2E as well. The only area that I find concerning and a possible indication of LD is processing speed (WMI is fine). It points to difficulties in on-the-spot memorizing and acquisition of new information since "Coding" tests the ability to memorize the digit-symbol correspondences on the spot. Does he need to work hard and spend time to memorize new facts rather than get new material on the fly? Note that learning new information is not the same as remembering what has already been learned and understood well. He might and definitely does remember everything that he has already learned but not learn new material as easily. It seems like he is using his innate reasoning horsepower (tested by Similarities, Matrix Reasoning and Picture Concepts)to compensate for an LD which is typical for kids who are both GT and LD. As for WMI, it is typical for 2E kids to have a WMI which is fine (as their attention and inhibition of distraction is fine) but which is lower than the more reasoning based VCI/PRI because of some sort of neurological compromise.

thanks for your response.

the funny thing is, he learns IMMEDIATELY. I would never have suspected a processing speed "problem"

I'm curious, though - when you say LD, what kind of thing do you see? He is hyperfocused, but not distracted/distractable in the least.

I am not an expert at all, just a 25 year old girl who has an LD herself (with a similarly atrocious PSI) and has been tested and so knows this test and has an idea of what it might indicate. If you definitely don't see an indication of any sort of LD and he is doing great and doesn't have any weaknesses in any academic/cognitive areas, then I would not put much stock into 2-3 lower subtests. The two processing speed subtests together probably took a total of 6 minutes (and that includes the sample demonstrations, etc). The parts that actually count for the scores probably took a total of 4 minutes. Thus these two low scores might just be an unfortunate fluke. Also keep in mind that this profile: VCI>PRI>WMI>PSI is common in higher IQ kids in general.

As for your question about the SB5 testing, I have no personal experience or any idea about this test at all. However, I've heard that it places more focus on visual-spatial, whole-to-part, simultaneous thinking as well as quantitative reasoning with less focus on verbal reasoning so whether or not SB5 will yield a higher overall score depends on his strengths and weaknesses. However, if I were to guess, I don't think SB5 score would be higher as your son's strengths seem to be in verbal reasoning and language (which is my case as well). Also, I read that SB5 usually produces lower overall scores than WISC IV. However, an old version SB-LM which emphasizes verbal reasoning produces higher scores than any current (more comprehensive) IQ test.

Your sons scores are very similiar to my dd. The first tester we saw when she was 6, said that the low psi automatically meant ADHD. However, we didn't believe that nor any of her teachers.she is very focused and meticulous. When we had her retested, she still had a low psi. This tester believes it has more to do with her personality and perfectionism. It does not seem to affect her achievement and she gets no special accomadations for it. Although, if she needs it the school will give it to her. I spent months worrying about it and whether or not it was a ld but we are ok with it for now. Plus is it really an ld if it doesn't affect achievment?

The WMI really is a test of short-term auditory memory. Gifted kids often have amazing long-term memories, but their short term memories for uninteresting facts (like a string of numbers) may or may not be fabulous. I wouldn't assume that his memory is poor based upon a lower WMI. With raw scores of 13 and 12, I'd guess that it falls around the 80 percentile, although that would be a rough guess on my behalf. Am I way off on that?

Like a pp said, my understanding is that the SB5 favors mathematically inclined kids and generally nets lower overall scores than the WISC-IV. Deborah Ruf considers scores in the low 120s to be gifted on the SB5, FWIW.

I just like to share more of my thoughts on WMI. I wouldn't call it a short-term memory (meaning learning and acquisition of new information) measure. I believe of the WISC subtests, "Coding" fulfills this function the most and thus is often the lowest subtest for many (you just can't compensate with your good reasoning on this one). WMI is more correlated with attention, inhibition of distraction and executive function/mental flexibility and thus is usually higher than PSI. However, it is usually lower than the reasoning indexes because in addition to good attention, you can't have an LD in order to get a high as opposed to decent WMI. For instance, I have an atrocious short-term memory/learning. On the California Verbal Learning Test which involves memorizing word lists over repeated trials, I did abysmally. However, my WMI was very solidly average. PSI, on the other hand, was below average. I'd like to add: a 12 and 13 on WMI yields slightly higher index score than the pure averaging would suggest (that's from seeing WISC IV profiles on this board). I believe it should be 114 which is around 82%ile.

I wish some great psychologist who is writing a book about giftedness would write a whole chapter on "coding" as it seems like a killer for so many of us! My DD7 got a "4"...and he's really smart..
irene

thanks, all

and Dottie, your words of wisdom are truly grounding and

priceless.

thank you