Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Elementary School Fuming and frustrated

Your DD sounds like my DD in some ways. It's hard to be the child in class who actually does believe in a need to adhere to exactly what the teacher says. Over the past few years there have been too many conversations in which, at some point, I said "Did you ask/tell your teacher..." and DD has responded with "...we're not allowed to talk to her when....". It used to frustrate me that she didn't understand that there were conditions under which it was ok. I think that the conflict comes because so many children are (developmentally) egocentric enough in their orientation that they assume themselves and their needs to be the *exception* to the rule, so when they feel they have a real need, they simply set the rule aside in order to get that need met (some more appropriately then others ).

For my DD, and it sounds like this is the case with yours as well, being the "exception" feels like misbehavior. Add in that she would rather do almost anything other than take the risk of being publicly reprimanded, and suddenly making a reasonable request becomes as unthinkable as putting a whoopee cushion on teacher's chair.

Her teacher is probably going to need to take her aside and reassure her that there are circumstances under which she IS allowed to interrupt/request/etc.



This sounds like the heart of the problem. It's hard to trust a teacher to be compassionate and positively proactive about the differences in our child's *emotional* makeup, when we have already been given reason to distrust them with our child's *intellectual* makeup.

I'm sorry that your DD (and you) went through this, and I hope the outcome of the conversation with her teacher is a positive one.

I think you have confused Kerry and I...

As for the part that doesn't make sense to you... Suppose you had an art class and everyone was supposed to make a painting of the same still life. One child is extremely skilled at art. The teacher chastises her for not adding other elements into the still life because being better at it she could have so the teacher makes her redo it according to different standards, but the whole class was expected to do that still life and no one else was chastised for not adding anything and no one else was made to redo it as she had been.

This situation teaches very unacceptable lessons to ALL the students in the class. (Besides being unfair...) This student should be removed from this situation because the teacher will probably not change her opinion of the child easily and could easily cause quite a bit of damage to the child in the process (self esteem issues, perfectionism issues, making her feel different, separating her from the class in a non-positive way, etc...)

In comparison if the child had been asked to do a different more complicated still life from the start or if other children had been asked to redo their work then it would have been a more equitable situation. I would take issue with it if the work had been differentiated from the start but the teacher had made the child redo it because it wasn't perfect, but did not expect the rest of the class to achieve perfection as well.

It's not an issue of the child in question being "fragile" as you put it, but an issue of unacceptable teaching methods and a teacher letting her predjudices interfere with her job.

Sorry,I did confused and it really skewed my gut reaction.
Kerry, sorry to hear that your DD may be having a UTI, those are no fun.

I would love to see Kerry's daughter in a classroom where the other kids are similar in academic ability to her. I think we agree on that.

'Demanding' teachers are tough to read. Some are monsters and some are the best thing that ever happened to a kid. I do think that having some faith in a child's inner strength is important, and then there is that line that gets crossed, and game is over. I've been there and it's a very emotional thing.

Shrugs and More Shrugs,
Grinity

I agree with challenging the child. As for the art example; I was one of those students and I was always challenged. More was expected of me because I had talent and I never resented my teachers for it. I really don't see the argument of not fair. We beg for the teachers to challenge our kids so if the teacher is pushing for a gifted child to put in more of an effort ... I just don't see this as bad.

Just so everyone understands, I am not against asking and expecting kids to do their best. My point is that if the teacher is going to be demanding she should be so of ALL of his/her students. Demanding ALL of them to work to the height of their abilities. My issue is when one student, gifted or not, is singled out for such treatment. A kid from the low end of the spectrum being singled out and made to redo work that would have been acceptable at that child's level if it was done by another student is equally as wrong. When the teacher does this it tends to be because of issues the teacher has, not the student, and it can quickly become a very toxic environment.

It seems to be that the issue was not high expectations, but the lack of transparency of the expectations at the outset, and some expectations that were not related to task complexity. To effectively differentiate, the teacher should have spoken individually with the student (e.g. "you heard me give directions to everyone to_______________. That will require a lot of effort from most of the class, but that is something you already know how to do. Rather than have you work on something you already know how to do, your task will be to _______________. What you will be learning to do when you do that is ___________").

IMO, asking a student to re-do an assignment that wasn't differentiated when presented is not a positive experience for the child. My DD would definitely interpret that in a negative light. On the other hand, when she knows the different expectations from the outset, she understands that her teacher is thoughtfully setting assignments for students based on appropriateness for *that* student.

I think that what really caught my attention was the neatness issue. Neatness and task complexity are not synonymous. Unless the assignment was sloppy compared to most other work done by that child (indicating rush/lack of effort), it isn't reasonable to expect that a GT child is going to be "neater" then the other children. Being a strong reader or mathematician doesn't have much bearing on how prettily a student can put letters on a piece of paper.

Hmm. I'm going to offer a somewhat stronger opinion about the toileting incident.

This was my child a few years ago. I:

1. Had a sympathetic no-nonsense talk with him and told him that if he needed to pee so badly that he was in danger of wetting his pants, he should just go and then deal with the consequences afterward. He could just call out on the way out the door or off the playground if need be. Better to face an annoyed teacher sit in urine-soaked wet trousers all day.

In a matter like this, I don't give a rat's a@@ about teacher's convenience. Barring children from relieving themselves is child abuse as far as I'm concerned. Bladders don't work on schedule, and most kids who don't feel a need during scheduled breaks just won't go. Anyone who's spent time with little kids should know that (well, if they pay attention, anyway).

2. Wrote a very firm letter to the principal asking if the school had a policy of forcing children to wet their pants. A few words about health risks (both to the child's distended bladder, her pee-soaked skin and the other children) go a long way here. Point out that the school may face liability. What if an unvaccinated child defecates polio virus onto the floor and passes it around? Keep the letter firm and avoid emotions. Hammer away at health risks and the school's liability.

More fodder for the letter: why didn't the school notify you so that you could bring dry clothing? Is it their policy to allow children to sit in urine-soaked clothing all day? I don't believe for a minute that the teacher didn't see that someone had wet her pants. Either she ignored the problem or was ignorant of what was going on in her class.

Also could your DD have contracted the UTI from being in urine-soaked clothing all day? A letter from a pediatrician could also help inspire policy reform here.

A seven-year-old child is too young to be expected to stand up to an authority figure like a teacher in a situation like this. Teachers are big and scary and girls, especially, can be inclined to do what they're told.

As for the likelihood of persuading this teacher to give your child more appropriate work, my reaction is: if she won't even let a kid pee, what are the chances that she's got enough of what it takes to even recognize your daughter's needs, let alone fulfill them? Puh-lease.

I agree about moving your DD to another classroom. You don't need to tie the move to what's happened; just give her a generic reason.

Also, try listening to this .

It's a soothing song by Chris Sills.

Kerry, I've been there, and I know how awful it is. Good luck.

Val

Just a quick note in terms of an update.
DD does not have a UTI, but the doctor still said she should be allowed to use the bathroom whenever she needs to.
I've not been able to talk to her teacher yet because she's been at jury duty all week, but I have an appt. tomorrow.

Well, after trying for a couple of weeks to get a meeting with DD's teachers and the administration about everything that is going on, we finally had our meeting yesterday.
If body language was any indication, boy did DD's teacher not want to be in the meeting. She was sitting there with her arms crossed, legs crossed, a sour look on her face and she didn't even look at us while we were talking most of the time.
We explained to them again about DD's ability and needs, as well as issues we have with how she is curently being taught at the wrong level and her work that is at the correct level is extra and not instead of grade level work. They were not very happy to hear that we were so unhappy and that DD is getting so frustrated. They still don't seem to understand that she is not going to be perfect, or do fabulous work all the time. They also don't quite understand that if she is given simple worksheets all the time they will not "see' her giftedness, and will probably see less and less of it the more fill in the blanks she is gven to do.
They also asked what we expected them to do! When we said differentiate appropriately they asked where they were suppose to find ideas about how to do this. I told them about Hoagiesgifted and this site again and they acted like I'd not already told them about those sites 3 times before. (ARGH)
They've asked for a week to come up with a plan of how they will meet her needs. So - the wait continues.