Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion To the homeschoolers about unschooling

I know this is a touchy subject for some people and I don't want to stir up a hornet's nest, just get some seasoned explanations.

Can someone please explain how unschooling can actually work and the child still learn the basics they need to survive (reading, basic math, legible writing and readable spelling)? I'm asking because I like the concept (the child will learn when they are ready and through real life experience), but I've seen many children in my area who don't seem like they are going to get to basic proficiency, for example a 10-12 ish year old who can't read, another one whose handwriting is so terrible no one can read it and an 8-ish year old who doesn't seem to be able to add single digit numbers.

I'm just wondering how this is fair to the kids. Admittedly I think these particular kids tend to not get out much and could probably have a richer learning environment, but I also know that at least one of them spends hours daily watching TV and playing video games. When does it become not ok?

I'm really not trying to be judgemental about all of this, I just don't understand how this is supposed to end up balanced and it confuses the daylights out of me. I'm sure (or at the very least hoping really hard) that the parents of these specific children have their kids best interests at heart, I'm just not "getting" the logic behind it. I'm NOT attacking unschoolers or unschooling just using some examples I have seen to try to help people see where my confusion is coming from.

Hey Wyldkat, we had the exact same concerns that you did when we learned about unschooling so I apologize if this is long. We were thrust into homeschooling DS7 last year when he started Kindergarten...we didn't plan on it but it is the best fit for right now. So of course last year we did all the basic steps - purchased curriculum, planned out a schedule/timeline and then began homeschooling and made our son completely miserable. By December last year DS and I were at each other's throats and the "sit down at the table and let's do our lesson" thing just was not flying at all. I was just so worried that I wasn't going to be able to give him all the curriculum that he needed.

So, I began researching homeschooling and came across unschooling. I was very intrigued because that was pretty much the entire way we raised DS up until he was supposed to go into K. We followed his lead and whenever he showed an interest in anything we would show him how to learn/research/find ways to explore his interests further. So unschooling wasn't a huge jump for us.

I guess you would say we are a mix of traditional and unschooling....we do EPGY for math and reading and we use a sprinkling of History of the World to help us with history but everything else would be considered "unschooling". My DS7 is the one who will beg to travel around the state to follow the Manatee migrations here in Florida and so we will get in the car and set up camp sites around the state to visit various Manatee winter home grounds. He is the one that will wake up and spend 3 hours programming his LEGO mindstorm robot to run circuits around the house and complete different actions. He created his own Family Nature Group that meets once a month at local nature preserves and he is the tour guide to the families who come out to just enjoy a walk in the woods together- so he has to research the local flora and fauna in order to be a good tour guide. Or he may be in the mood to design his own railway line on paper and then use Kid Pix on the computer to input his railway line.

We have found that the more we allow him to follow his passions the more he is really learning real life situations and how to use reading/math/science all integrated at the same time...in those real world situations. Plunk a boxed curriculum in his face and he will run away screaming (well, not really but you know what I mean) - have him go and open up his own bank account with a debt card and start him with an allowance and he will learn all about how to handle a checking book, how to input debt card receipts and balance his book all while doing math, writing and reading.

With unschooling you are the facilitator not the dictator. It is your role to help "guide" your child - when you see that he/she is interested in a certain topic/theme/idea then you can suggest various activities/things that they can do to learn more about that topic. And the super cool thing that occurs is that when a child is learning a concept that they can see being used in a real world application they almost always end up having to read, write, do math in some form, learn some history/background....all while doing something they are interested in which in turn makes them want to go out and learn more new things and the cycle continues.

The sad thing is what you brought up...yes, there are parents out there who tend to look at homeschooling or unschooling as a form of babysitting...the parent can go off and do whatever they would like to do and the child will just learn through osmosis or sit in front of the tv all day and that is it for weeks on end. I have an issue with that BUT everyone has their opinions about unschooling or even radical unschooling. Most unschoolers I have met are viewing the role that they are there to help their child explore and discover by offering them suggestions/ideas/projects/activities when they see an interest pop up with their child. In doing so, the parent can help navigate activities/projects that will almost always encompass all of the basic curriculum areas.

I met with one unschooler group last year when we were just beginning the concept of unschooling and the first thing out of my mouth was "so, can you guys pass on some suggestions of local mentors/facilities/programs that you know about so that I can make a list of resources so when my son asks for further info, I have some resources up my sleeve to give him". I remember them just staring at me and one said, "well, our children don't tend to be very motivated so we don't have a whole lot of suggestions for you"...then they went on to share that their child's day consisted of sitting in front of the tv or computer all day long and that was it. I didn't quite know what to say to that and I went on to find an unschooling group that fit my definition of unschooling as being your child's facilitator.

My son HATES handwriting - he has dyspraxia and it is very difficult for him - we tried a boxed curriculum (handwriting without tears) and yes it was good but it had no purpose for him...and it was a fight to get him to write anything. Since we have moved into the land of unschooling last January we find him, on his own without him even realizing it - spending a lot of time writing and learning how to spell...through all different kinds of things....nature scavenger hunts, him running into the other room to write down a plan for his mindstorm robot before he forgets it, writing out a shopping list of supplies he needed to complete his rocket building project... He writes more daily now then he did when I tried to force him to sit down and do a boxed curriculum and he is doing it for a purpose so it has meaning.

Here is a good site
http://www.naturalchild.org/

And I really, really enjoy this person's blog and she is known quite while - I keep up with her blog to keep me inspired
http://thesparklingmartins.blogspot.com/2010/01/fear-becomes-reality.html

well - hope I didn't put you to sleep...there is a way to be unschoolers and through guidance, your child will hit all the "required" curriculum just through a different method but it is up to how the parent guides the child through the process :-)

IMO, unschooling will not work for all families. To unschool successfully, a family should be loving, responsive, creative, and model a love of learning. Perhaps even with such families unschooling will not work for all children. My own child is driven and loves to learn, and is particularly adamant about directing her own learning. Of course, she is not-quite-four, but since it's a trait she's had since infancy I don't think it's going to disappear anytime soon.

So, the basic principle is that children teach themselves from infancy without formal or informal curriculum. Children who are loved and played with teach themselves how to walk and talk and feed themselves. These things seems simple, but they are truly amazing feats. Unschooling is the idea that kids will continue to learn everything they need to know all of their own initiative. Of course, they typically ask their friends or relatives for help in learning. Of course, they often choose to take classes. But as an unschooling parent your responsibility is to trust that your child can make those decisions and will make them appropriately.

As for the basics, I can testify that unschooled children can certainly teach themselves the essentials. My DD is not yet 4, and has taught herself to read and do basic math and is currently working on handwriting (all on her own, though I help her when she asks).

Thanks! You seem to be doing unschooling the way I like the concept.

Does it really still count as unschooling if you use curriculum (math or reading for example)? Wolf follows a certain curriculum, but most of the time it's just us doing what he wants to do and I don't consider us unschoolers.

I've never met a kid who was unschooled the TV method, for lack of a better term, as an adult. For that matter I've never met an adult who had been unschooled in anyway. I'm just curious how the TV method turns out in the end...

My favorite description of unschooling refers to the initial stage of unschooling as deschooling. The final stage is acceptance that all forms of learning are equal. So, yes, curriculum can be a part of unschooling.

Actually, many philosophies of homeschooling recommend deschooling first. That's not just an unschooling thing. I completely agree that it is a good first step, especially if a child has been in a bad school situation.

Wyldkat, like you, I have seen a couple of people using unschooling as an excuse for what looks very much like educational neglect to me. I don't accept that as true unschooling personally (but, then, what do I know...). I just figure that I don't know what's really going on behind closed doors. I'm not sure what else you can do in those cases.

As for a definition of unschooling...

Some people have considered my family to be unschoolers because I have a whole bunch of materials for my son to choose from, but what we do in a given day tends to be child-led. We have some textbook/workbook stuff around--though we also use lots of less traditional "school" staples. When we do use text/workbooks, we don't go through them lockstep, and he does most of the work by himself, for himself. I'm more of a resource than a "school at home" teacher.

OTOH, some people would say that we are definitely NOT unschoolers because DS8 is expected to do at least a little bit from each subject every week (maybe not every day, depending on what the week is like). He is not permitted to ignore math for weeks on end, for example. And we do use workbooks and such, and some would say that unless we are baking cookies or making pizzas when we do fractions--something organic and hands-on--it can't be unschooling!

So which is right?

Who knows. It depends on how you define the term unschooling.

I read a great definition that suggested that unschooling done right is actually MORE work for the parent than school at home in many ways, since a the unschooler has to have an assortment of appropriate resources on hand at all times and must be ready to use them when the child chooses. The school-at-homer just has to have read the teacher's guide for the day's assignment. That's oversimplified, but it makes some sense to me. On that spectrum--which may or may not be a useful one to anyone but me!--I'm closer to the unschooler. <shrug>

Maybe that helps to clarify why it's confusing, at least?

I think this is true. I guess I consider us eclectic homeschoolers because I think to be 100% unschooling you'd need to be "on" and "ready" constantly to make everything a learning experience. I am actually doing this naturally the longer we homeschool, but I appreciate my down time! We certainly do follow the kid's lead in many areas. My DD5 is constantly doing crafts, drawing, working with yarn, writing, etc. My DS9 is often engineering or researching areas of interest. I consider the curriculum we do have as a guide and if we completely ignore it for a while, that's ok (with the exception of math, writing, and reading (and I'm not so picky what they are reading, as long as they read on a daily basis)). We cover the basis of subjects over the course of the week - and sometimes that might be going to a science museum, or learning about Santa Lucia at the Swedish American Institute, going to a workshop about Norse gods, or dissecting a disk drive, rather than following any curriculum.

I do know a couple people who are "real" unschoolers with varied success. I think with a motivated, and gifted learner unschooling could be a very natural way to go! I am fine with what my kids are doing as long as they are at least at grade level in everything. If we had to drop them at school on Monday, they'd be ok. Well, in our case, we'd have the opposite problem (way ahead of grade level). I wouldn't be comfortable with my child lingering below grade level for several years. I don't think your kid's life choices should be limited by decisions they made for themselves at an early age.

I disagree with this description. I'd say that when you unschool you relax into understanding that everything is a learning experience. You don't need to _make_ it that way. Yes, you need to be prepared to help with whatever your child needs help with, and you won't have advance notice to prepare--but don't most parents do that anyway?

I think what we have been doing for the last several weeks (since my son had to start wearing a painful scoliosis brace) might be described as unschooling and he is still learning. He asks me to read to him from history books and magazines like Popular Science, Popular Mechanics, Discover and National Geographic while he plays video games. He says it takes his mind off the pain. He has always learned best by reading or having me read to him and discussing what we read. He always asks a lot of questions and since we are not on a school schedule we can take the time to find answers. He doesn't have to do a lot of writing which I think would turn him off to learning because he also has motor dyspraxia and dysgraphia and hypotonia. Low endurance for things like writing was a problem before but pain causes him to fatigue even faster so we have a lot of things to work around right now. His handwriting is legible and spelling and vocabulary have never been a problem for him, but he can't write as fast or as much as other kids, so he learned to type and he can use his Livescribe Pulse Smart Pen to take notes.

He plays educational games to learn anatomy and vocabulary and Japanese phrases on his iPhone in bed at night when he doesn't have to wear the brace. He also likes to play things like physics based puzzle games while I read to him.

The brace makes it hard for him to do the things he did before because it limits his mobility and he has to wear it during any kind of weight bearing activity for the next 5 or 6 years. I would like for him to get out more but there isn't a lot for him to do in a small town where all boys do sports.

Yeah, like I said, many definitions. The definition that kimck and I are discussing there came from someone who calls herself an unschooler. So is she wrong and she isn't an unschooler? Are you wrong? I'd argue you're both right and just coming at it differently. <shrug again> Her model will work for some people, yours for others. No wrong, just different.

That's why I quit trying to define these things. Doing what works for one's own family in practice and not trying to make a philosophy out of it seems the smartest course of action.

I do think unschoolers as a group tend to be relatively unconcerned about making sure the kids are doing at least grade level work. (And that's a generalization, but I think it's a fair one.) I consider myself to be a child-led eclectic homeschooler rather than an unschooler precisely because I want my kids to work at grade level at least in every subject and not to fall behind on anything. I don't think a true unschooler would feel that way because that means I am imposing external constraints on what my child learns.

In practice, however, DS8 is ahead in everything, so what we do winds up looking pretty close to unschooling. I say "What do you want to do today?" and he tells me. Then he does it. That's pretty unschool-y!