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    Joined: Oct 2008
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    There are many responses to any given situation and clearly you had a negative one. I see Christmas as a magical time and am always reminded of the famous editor's response to Virginia:

    "Yes, VIRGINIA, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus. It would be as dreary as if there were no VIRGINIAS. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished."

    I have to ponder how you yourself deal with your kids and this season.

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    I don't see how any of that fits in with lying and threatening kids to make them behave. This seems like a poor substitute for actual childhood imagination and excitement about the holidays.

    There are many holidays and many ways to enjoy them. One thing I prefer about not lying to kids is that there isn't a shift or lessening of excitement about the holiday once the secret is revealed.

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    passthepotatoes, isn't Santa's naughty and nice list a part of the secret, the tradition?

    How many parents actually threaten their kids with "I wonder if santa's elves are watching" or rather use it as a light hearted phrase as intended at this time of year. I really think you are stretching the point by implying that this somehow leads to a childhood of being lied too.

    matmum #63185 12/05/09 08:00 PM
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    I really don't see the argument and think this falls under different styles of parenting. I am comfortable with the traditions in our house and have no problem using the naughty or nice aspect.

    Using your argument I guess I would be at fault for allowing my child the imagination she has and especially for playing along with her as she is being chased by a lion or becomes one herself and chases me. I would never squash this part of her nor would I deny her the right to experience the idea of Santa and like I said before... I have no problem using the naughty or nice aspect to have her rethink her actions. Just like I use her daily imagination to show what is right and wrong behavior and vice versa ... she is always showing right and wrong behavior with her stuffed or imaginary friends.

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    Originally Posted by Katelyn'sM om
    Using your argument I guess I would be at fault for allowing my child the imagination she has and especially for playing along with her as she is being chased by a lion or becomes one herself and chases me.

    Two things.

    1. Computer programmers tap into a lie that has been told several times over and create a realistic video using personal information supplied by the parent. The video suggests the child is being watched and if they behave they will receive gifts. This is not based on imagination because the child isn't not imagining anything - at the very core the whole thing depends on the child thinking it is real.

    2. A child using their own imagination creates and pretends a story. She decides on characters and a series of events and controls and participates in the action. She knows it is pretend.

    These are entirely distinct processes. Outside of the Santa context if you heard of a parent hiring computer programmers, paying for television air time, hiring people to hang around the mall all to tell their children something that wasn't true presumably you'd at least find this odd if not possibly a bit abusive.

    As I said before this is one of those YMMV things. People don't all react in the same way for sure. There are lot of variables concerning the individual personality of the child and also I'm sure the way in which they find out and if parents are invested in pushing the manipulation. Given the tendency of many gifted children to be concerned about issues of respect and justice it may be worth considering the long range implications.

    matmum #63193 12/05/09 11:26 PM
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    Originally Posted by matmum
    How many parents actually threaten their kids with "I wonder if santa's elves are watching" or rather use it as a light hearted phrase as intended at this time of year.

    He knows when you are sleeping, he knows when you're awake, he knows if you've been bad or good...
    That is a pretty fundamental aspect of the tradition. The naughty/nice manipulation is certainly a part of the video posted.

    And, to be clear, I'm sure most people do intend to be lighthearted. It doesn't mean of course that children will feel the same way about it.

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    Originally Posted by passthepotatoes
    It is interesting how different kids react to this sort of thing. One common characteristic of gifted kids is having a stronger sense of justice.

    For the record, my son was one of these kids, exceptionally so, and I am pleased to say that he survived the santa experience unscathed.

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