Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment WISC-IV vs. SB-V in real scores and a ?

I know we've had a lot of discussion regarding WISC vs. SB-V and which was the better option for different kids. My son had the SB-V done in August 08 when he was 5 years, 4 months. We had the WIAT done in August 09 at 6 years 4 months and he received a DYS qualifying score in reading, so we went ahead and did the WISC to see what might happen.

My question for Dottie and other test experts- You'll see my son's processing speed is dramatically lower than his other scores. He doesn't have a similar "low" score on the SB-V. Is that because it isn't measured? Or has something changed? We're a bit concerned about the gap there too- what do you see?

His SB-V scores:
FSIQ 139
Nonverbal- 136
Verbal 139

Nonverbal-
Fluid reasoning 16
Knowledge 16
Quantitative reasoning 17
Visual Spatial 14
Working memory 15

Verbal-
Fluid reasoning 19
Knowledge- 17
Quantitative reasoning 14
Visual Spatial 14
Working memory 17


WISC-IV Scores
FSIQ 142
GAI- 148
Verbal Comp- 140
Perceptual Reasoning- 139
Working Memory 141
Processing Speed- 109

Similarities- 17
Vocabulary- 18
Comprehension- 15

Block Design- 13
Picture Concepts- 16
Matrix reasoning- 18
Picture Completion 15 (substitution for Block Design)

Digit Span- 18
Letter Number Sequencing- 16

Coding- 9
Symbol Search- 14
Cancellation-8 (sub for Coding- not used in FSIQ)

Hi Camom, I'm not a test expert but my DD's scores were almost the same as your DS's in the WISC-IV scores ,did your tester make a big deal about how VC,PR, and WM were so close together? Mine did, said it is very unusual even with the gifted to have it that close together and shows that the child is very balanced in their learning. (my DD had a 3 points difference as well) The tester also said that it is typical for this age to have a lot lower processing speed. (DD's was 112) I hope that helps

Actually, our tester freaked me out and started talking about sensory processing disorder and DS's inability to sit still while taking the test. He pretty much never stops moving at home- he sometimes even reads while pacing the room. However, this doesn't affect him at all in the classroom. He just drums on his leg or runs his tongue on his teeth or whatever else keeps him moving. I wish kids could chew gum at school because gum is like a miracle drug for his concentration abilities!

She did say that he was "globally gifted" and that may also be why he hasn't latched on to a specific theme or topic that is an obsession/hobby for him.

From what I've seen, lots of gifted kids have average processing speed. That doesn't mean they're not gifted, it means that processing speed is not the thing that makes them gifted.

The coding subtest requires some visual/motor ability which is not strongly related to giftedness.

If you are not seeing any signs that he has unusual difficulty with writing, you probably don't need to be concerned. Did the psychologist raise any concerns over the lower (relatively speaking!) PSI?

Thanks for all the info ladies! He does have a hard time with writing and we did spend time looking into dysgraphia. Of course, as soon as I had scheduled an appointment for an evaluation, he "got it" and got dramatically better in a span of just a few weeks. He does still reverse some letters but over the summer we were concerned about major letter reversal, caps in the middle of words, spelling accurately orally but not being able to get it on paper etc.

She did raise concerns over his PSI being "significantly" lower- primarily because we are considering a grade skip and she's not sure whether or not this number brings concerns with that. The more I've looked and thought, the more I think it is related to his handwriting rather than his actual processing ability. Which still could affect a grade skip in the long run... but from a different perspective.

Dottie- I think you're right about being "slow" and "fast" at the same time! He is meticulous with extreme perfectionist tendencies and absolutely dreads making a mistake on paper where it is more permanent. Verbally he is like lightening- I can't hardly keep up with him sometimes!

Yes mines fidgety too. Somehow she sits at her desk and her feet dance while her top half stays still listening to a lesson.

I must say I do like the term "globally gifted" has a nice ring to it, don't you think?

Thanks Gratified- I think I have a non-speedy, highly verbal kid. His strengths didn't shine through as much on the SB5 but he wasn't penalized for slowness either.

I don't think it would have bothered me so much if the tester hadn't wigged out on us about sensory issues. I really think he just has an extreme OE requiring lots of physical movement to acquire new information or concentrate. It doesn't appear to bother him in class- his teacher hasn't mentioned it and in my observations in class, he's freakishly still. I guess that could be a sign that he's not having to concentrate.... but we're not getting the "he cannot sit still!" phone calls either.

I have a non-speedy, pretty verbal, highly logical DS8. If memory serves, his PSI was 109, too, though his WMI was only in the 120s, I think. That WMI doesn't help matters either for him, since he works slowly and then can't hold things in his mind as well as he could if his memory were as strong as his ability to reason.

I see the speed issue much as Grinity describes it: as a bottleneck, something that can interfere with his learning and his ability to fit into a classroom. He had one teacher who strongly associated speed with giftedness, and that class was a dismal failure for him. It's one of the reasons I'm not wild about the idea of early college for him and am trying to find ways to keep him challenged but still in high school-and-below for another 8 years, at least. Until he's pretty close to college-aged, I'm not sure how well he'd be able to keep up in college classes.

If he were traditionally schooled, I think the bottleneck might make it quite hard for him to fit in. While he was in public school, one of the biggest complaints that teachers had about him was that he couldn't finish his (easy) work. It was hard to ask for greater challenge if he didn't finish the regular work in a timely fashion!

These days, I find that he can do beginning algebra, but he needs to do it at the speed of an average 8yo, because that's really what he is in terms of speed. It's challenging to strike the right balance even as a homeschooler.

Having directions in writing helps him. Not trying to do so much mental math made our lives easier (though we still do some to strenghten his weaker areas. I just know that it's going to be hard for him and approach it as such.).

I think the biggest thing for me was realizing that he's not dawdling--which used to frustrate me no end!--so much as he's thinking. I stopped getting so frustrated with him and started treating his "dawdling" as an actual need for extra time. That made life much calmer and happpier for both of us.

I know you didn't ask for advice, so forgive me if this post isn't useful to you. As always, feel free to ignore. I just know how hard it was for us to deal with a slow but deep kid. It doesn't fit the mold at all!

Kriston-
Thanks for your advice as always, it is always appreciated by me! A lot of your description really describes how he is any time something has to go on paper but is the exact opposite of how he is with anything verbal. His mental math skills are ridiculously fast and with great ease. But ask him to write how he got his answer? Be prepared to wait at least 5 min, if he can even break it down at all. As him to tell you a story and you'll get 10 min of coherent, creative thought. Ask him to write a story and you will get three sentences IF you are lucky. We have banned the words "fun" and "funny" in our house. You cannot write a book report that says I liked it because it was fun and funny!

I will have to try to just simply give him more time and space with homework and see what happens. He's really not getting any pressure at school to go faster so I'm not worried about that angle yet. I know it will get worse though. 2nd grade is full of timed math tests. Given the tests today orally, he could easily beat the 100 problem in 3 min. But I know there's no way he'd be able to write it down that fast. Maybe that's a goal we should be working on.

It's interesting that ours are pretty much opposites in some ways. DS8 can write with ease (though not always neatly...), but he gets lost in the ether if he has to do things in his head. I wonder if your son's stronger working memory is the issue there. Hmmm...

Have you tried having him record his thoughts and stories, and then transcribe them? As he gets older, then, he could transcribe them himself. I found this strategy very useful when writing particularly sticky parts of my first (unpublished) novel, actually. It lets you wander around in your thoughts without losing the thread.

Digital recorders are quite cheap now ($30-$50 buys you a very serviceable one), and fit in the palm of your hand. So even if he's hard on it, it's not a giant investment. They are small enough to lose, so maybe have him "borrow" it when he wants to record something, if you decide to go that route.

If nothing else, it's a good way to get those amazing stories he's creating recorded for posterity. My cheapy recorder came with computer software. I have some cute things recorded!

And no, I do not work for a company that makes or sells recorders.