Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment RIAS

We are having some further testing done for my younger dd (not the one mentioned in the lexile thread). She is a very erratic kid at school with achievement scores in reading and math on MAPs tests that range from average to the 90s (percentiles) every few months. Her CogAT indicates that she is a high average kid (80s percentile wise), but the WISC-IV given last year puts her GAI (includes perceptual reasoning and verbal subtests) at the 99.9th percentile. Even including the working memory and processing speed subtests, which were much lower, she is still gifted (around 99th percentile). Her school has been disinclined to believe the higher tests scores calling them a result of good guessing.

The psych who will be testing her is going to readminister the WISC (more than a year out) as well as the WIAT and GORT(achievement), and social emotional rating scales to look for anxiety or other issues that may be standing in her way at school.

She is also going to do a second IQ test. I had requested the SB-5. She is leaning toward the RIAS b/c it is much shorter (like 20 minutes) and she feels that it may be better since dd may be burned out from all of this testing. We are breaking it into three days. She also feels that the RIAS is good at looking at visual and visual spatial memory which we feel are stronger points for dd than auditory memory (which is what the WISC tests).

My hesistancy with the RIAS is that I understand that is has short discontinue guidelines (you miss two questions, and that's the end of that segmenent) and it isn't something that I see as being accepted by DYS if, for some reason, dd is actually as able as her original WISC indicated. If she is DYS eligible, I'd like to be able to apply w/out further testing. Of course, the WISC may qualify her, but I don't know if they take GAI. Her highest score btwn the verbal and perceptual subtests was 99.7th (142)the first time she took the WISC, so those scores alone won't quite make it.

Any input? Dh wants to defer to what the psych believes is best.

My son just took the RIAS this past weekend. He took the Weschler and SBV last year and with his Dyspraxia and SPD, the tester stated it was very clear that this issues got in the way (he scored super high in many areas and then super low in a handful - so the low scores pulled down the highs and averaged him off) of the testing so we tried another round this weekend with an assessor who understood SPD. She suggested the RIAS for the same reason you were told - my son is very visual. With the RIAS there is no manipulation of items (such as blocks - which was the lowest score for my son on the past tests due to his Dyspraxia) and it moves very quickly even though he was back with her for well over an hour so it didn't take 20 minutes. He did ceiling the test as she put it for the reason you stated so his final score outcome, she informed us that his FSIQ is probably higher than what is shown. But it was the first test that has finally given us some confirmation that we weren't crazy concerning his gifted level and we can bring it to the school.

Here's why this is unlikely.



http://www.nwea.org/support/details.aspx?content=1024

I believe the ability to guess good is a factor of intelligence!
As for the RIAS our school district has recently switched over to this test and has actually been seeing more students test into the gifted program. And they are happy because they get more $ from the state for GT.

The only part on the RIAS where guessing can help you is on one section of the visual spacial. You are given a # patterens/shapes and have to point out which one you think is different. you do not need to why it is different.
The verbal section is NOT multiple choice, so you either know it or you don't. My DD scored VERY high in the verbal and I called the psy to make sure the results were valid and that she was not a good guesser..Denial


Is this psych a school councelor? If not I suggest you check with your school to see which test they would honor before making your final decision.
Are you applying to get into a gifted school or to get into the gifted program at a regular school?
We wish you luck!!!

The psych is not affiliated with the school. The school won't do any further testing and she won't be in the gifted program when is starts next year at this point. Her teacher has expressed the opinion that the CogAT proves that dd is not gifted and that the WISC scores are wrong.

That aside, the school does take the WISC. It was one of the factors used to id our older dd as gifted. Our older dd also has very high achievement scores and very consistent achievement scores, so it wasn't an issue of the school not believing the IQ test.

We are doing the testing for a few reasons:
1) to rule out learning disabilities/twice exceptionality
2) to see if she may be scores high enough to get into GT programming although I don't think the programming itself is that different than the regular class to warrant all this cost. However, not qualifying for it is just further proof to dd that she is lesser than her sister, which her teacher seems to have already convinced her of.

GT id in the school requires two of the following things:
1) an ability test (they will take the WISC even if the CogAT isn't high enough despite what her teacher said -- I checked)
2) an achievement test in the 95th percentile or above
3) a CSAP score (also achievement -- a NCLB test in Colorado) in the advanced category for reading (the only subject for which GT programming really exists in her school.

Right now, I have no idea where her CSAPs will fall -- won't know until the fall and her school administered achievement tests are all over the place, so they don't qualify her for the achievement piece. If the WIAT is high enough, that will.

GRRRR! CogAT is NOT an IQ test!!

Double GRRRR!

What if the RIAS test is high? Will they argue the vadality of that as well?
You may want to try brightminds or some other achievement excersice over the summer to see if you can have some gains in this area.
My DD6 scores in the high average on achievement test as well, but her Full Scale IQ smoked those #'s.
Not all gifted kids are good test takers. My DD6 hates to guess, which is why I believe her achievement scores are not higher. She wants to know the right answer and lacks the confidence to try to guess well. She is a sponge not a forward thinker and probally would have bombed the cogAT:)
Luckily our school district places GT kids by IQ, and will also place the high achievers if needed.
Good luck and keep us posted

Yeah, I must admit that it bugs me that a child with a highly gifted or above IQ is considered to be not gifted if s/he doesn't have high achievement scores while a child with an avg IQ is placed in gifted programming if s/he has advanced NCLB test scores and high achievement scores. That winds up making the GT programming really something you can get your kid into by enrolling them in extra tutoring and getting their achievement scores up high.

My thoughts exactly!

We've got one day of testing left -- the achievement stuff (GORT and WIAT) to look for discrepencies btwn ability and achievement. I took dd in for the first day on which she did the WISC-IV. Dh took dd in today and I believe that they went with the SB-V rather than the RIAS although I'll have to confirm with the tester since I wasn't the one dropping off and picking up the kiddo today.

I must admit that I am nervous until we see how she did. I don't even know what I am nervous about, but I find myself wondering about how to interpret things. I am not good with surprises, so waiting on anything especially my child who has left me so confused as to what she really needs is difficult.

I wonder, though, if anyone has any thoughts on this. My understanding is that the WISC takes like 60-90 minutes to administer and the SB around 45-75 (at least from what I see online). Dd was there for around two hours for each of these tests. She took two breaks with the WISC I believe of maybe 5-10 minutes at most and one break with the SB. Does taking a long time to test indicate anything that I should be worried about?

Since the tester keeps asking questions until the child misses a few in a row, it's probably a good sign that it took longer than typical.
Hope that helps you worry a little less.