Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional gifted scores and severe processing speed issues

I have read online that low coding score *may* indicate ADHD IF other factors are also present. My friend's DD who is ADHD and gifted, had a very low coding score w/ GAI of about 146.

Hi,
I have just joined this forum because I can't believe what I'm reading.

I have an 11 year old boy (is that DS11?) who is in a gifted program and doesn't write unless there is absolutely no other option. Also, he never did timed tests for addition or multiplication although he has no problem with the concepts and has now learned his facts because he's doing much more advanced math. He was a preemie, born at 25 weeks, no current medical conditions except poor eating habits, tested into the gifted program in 2nd grade, a voracious reader, a sponge for information of any kind, very immature for his age both physically & socially, funny as all ... But, his output isn't there.

Two years ago on the WISC-IV he had a coding score of 5, with an overall processing speed index of 83 (13th percentile). His working Memory Index is more in range (86th percentile) but is comprised of the Digit Span (98th percentile) and letter number sequencing (50th). VCI is high across the board. The psychologist who administered the test said that the mere fact of having such large discrepancies of scores would not only be extremely frustrating for him, but is an LD in and of itself. At that time she also diagnosed dysgraphia and ADHD, with a provisional diagnosis of Adjustment Disorder with Anxiety. We got a 504 plan for the dysgraphia to get the teacher off his back. She had turned him into the "bad" kid in a school with very few bad kids.

The dysgraphia doesn't exactly fit because he can form his letters really well, is naturally a good speller,but he does not even come close to expressing himself in writing the way he does verbally. A psychiatrist we saw to discuss ADHD went with Anxiety as primary diagnosis and he went on anti-anxiety meds. This helped a lot with emotional issues at school (shutting down, frustration, giving up). Then 4th grade, new teacher, better writing, but still not even close to his verbal abilities.

Now in 5th grade, at the gifted magnet school full time, the writing still isn't happening and I'm immersed in looking for the right "label"? for want of a better word. He's now on meds for ADHD but I don't see these helping much and will probably discontinue.

You've given me tons to look at: convergence insufficiency, non-sequential learner, visual spacial learner, motor planning. I can't even keep track of it all right now. But I had to write to join the club of "coding 5".

Writing back to state that our ds8 has so many of these characteristics, it is astounding to read these descriptions. Also, I wanted to post a bit about what ds' tester/psychologist has concluded.
Ds' coding was 7, not 5, but he fits this picture you guys are describing:
great speller on tests (98% on WJ Spelling subtest), doesn't pay as much attention when spelling in written work. Doesn't like to write at length, though verbal ability is supposed to be a strength. Loves to draw, does so often and well.
Not a regular Joe when it comes to interests, has to work to like what the other kids like, and definitely has to work to be liked. GAI on wisc - 95th percentile, PSI - 21st percentile.

I posted on another thread some of this. After a thorough psychoeducational assessment the Dr stated that ds is capable of very high abstract understanding, but has processing speed deficiencies which will begin to affect his ability to perform in the classroom and most especially on timed tests and that a plan to accomodate this issue must be set up with the school. He stated that some of this processing speed problem is very likely related to depression - yes this was a real shocker to us. Ds' has social issues, part of why we were there. He hates that he isn't making friends as quickly and smoothly as he wants and is ending up directing his frustrations at himself; he also has anxiety over some school stuff. Benny's post is the only one I've read where the dr mentions anxiety.
Our dr never mentioned dysgraphia, but I will state that ds' did a pegboard test which times left and right hands. His left was slightly faster than his right, although the right hand was still average. The doctor asked about left handedness in our family. Dh and I are both lefties; Dr said there are about 25% of lefties who don't have language strictly on one side of the brain, but rather on both sides (true lefties don't always write with their left hands). I don't want to go too far down this path cause it gets really fuzzy, but he said that this would indicate other subtle differences are likely in the brain as well. Great, interesting differences, but differences nonetheless. Lefties in the family anyone?
Back to the main issue - depression and anxiety over social issues. Dr recommends focused professional social skills training, and continuing to assess ds mood to make sure it is improving. If not improving after a couple months, broader therapy is recommended. Also, he has given Dh and Ds a prescription for Boy Scouts . (a place to get one on one and with groups of other kids to practice new learned social skills and to make friends). Improvement in social outlook should equal improvement in mood and general outlook for ds, and has a good possibility of alleviating some of the processing slowness.

Hope all this is of help or at least of interest.

if it helps, non-sequential = spatial, at least according to Silverman. For motor planning I'd look at OT for SPD. And of course for convergence insufficiency, see www.covd.org for some info and an optometrist who does vision therapy. Also, ocular motor problems are another subset of SPD.

Has he tried keyboarding instead of writing? Good luck!

Yes he's been doing keyboarding at school, but he hasn't really got it yet. Our older son (now 15) had terrible handwriting but really took off on his writing when he learned to keyboard - about the end of 4th grade. He wrote a book for an independent project in 6th grade and has never stopped.
My husband is a great writer and both kids have the imagination and the love of stories to do whatever they want with this. This summer we will be gone for a good portion of time (we're both teachers) and will write stories, draw pictures, swim, hike and explore. I think it is going to be exactly what we need, to get aware from the social and writing pressure of school.

I looked at convergence insufficiency and I don't think that fits. Part of SPD fit, but not enough. The spatial learner matches a lot.

I'm in a quandry right now. 11 yr old is in a gifted magnet school, about 100 kids grades 5-8. We've been in and talked to principal, two primary teachers, band teacher, about anxiety, self-esteem, dysgraphia and have had lots of support, except for the woman who teaches math. I think she's not convinced he belongs at the school. Anyway, a field trip is happening next week that involves two nights spent in a college dormitory. I'm going as a chaperone and so I have seen the room assignments. My son has been put in a room by himself - joining another room with two boys through the bathroom. An odd number of kids led to this. I hate to be the "my kid's different" kind of mom, but I think it entirely inappropriate that they chose the boy who is worried about not having friends, has anxiety, is less mature than the others, to put alone. I talked to son about it (even though the assignments are supposed to be top secret) and I think it will be okay. I just don't know if I should say more to this teacher (who was part of assigning rooms). In 5 weeks he's done with her as a teacher, but it seems so obvious to me that part of her job at a gifted school would be watching out for the kids who are "at risk" and all of these issues definitely put our son in the at risk category. My husband, high school teacher, thinks the rooming decision is inexcusable. My friends who know our son agree. How much stink do I make?

Objective opinions anyone?

benny

BTW Chris,
I think you are right on with the boy scout prescription. I teach ESL and I know that for language learning to happen, the affective filter needs to be down. I think getting your son into a social situation where he feels more successful is THE most important thing to do for a gifted kit. A lot of the other stuff will come (i believe).

And yes, your comments are of help, and of interest.

Master of none, I am beginning to feel irritable and offended when I hear words from teachers like "just needs to try harder."

I read a book this spring called "The myth of underachievement" which was very interesting, though like so much didn't tell me what to do The author made the point that no child "chooses" to fail. I know my son often chooses not to do his work but I am convinced it is because the other "choice," doing it, is more painful on some level. (and this is not done at a conscious level, if it were it would be much easier to get around.) Anxiety? overwhelmed? control? He's not just flipping off the teacher when he doesn't do well. Understanding this doesn't seem like that much of a stretch to me, but a lot of teachers continue to think that he's just not paying attention, or is just stubborn.

BTW, what does a 504 for dysgraphia and anxiety look like for your son? And is the anxiety piece a part of it? We had a 504 for one year for dysgraphia and he was given some tests orally. We let it drop when he had a great teacher who accommodated naturally, painlessly, oh to go back to her! We may need to implement this again. Decisions.

Yes, I think I am seeing in your descriptions what the doctor must mean in terms of ds running into issues in school. So far so good, but it will be really hard on ds to go from straight A's because in part he has a really understanding and cool teacher who 'gets' him, to a situation where everytime he forgets something it's a big horrible deal (1st grade, 2nd grade).

We are focusing on the social skills right now, but I don't want to ignore the anxiety which I think springs from several different things. I am reading 'The Anxiety Cure for kids', it is a guide for parents and uses a metaphor of a dragon (anxiety) and a wizard which overcomes this dragon - only read a bit so far but it seems good so far.

Benny - I would absolutely make a stink about the room assignments- they should be alphabetical or something that is completely NOT related to personality/preference of the kids.
If it's a large group probably at least one child will end up not showing so that might help, but I would not count on that to happen.

This is a good question - how to approach assignments, I think I am probably thinking in terms of young kids, and working together. Sleeping overnight might need more input from the kids. Older kids I guess this figures in more. I googled on this idea, there seem to be some articles on partnering in the classroom, this was a good one:
http://www.proteacher.org/c/988_Choosing_Partners.html

And I found some articles on doing profiles for students or team mates who would room together longer term, but I really couldn't find anything for short overnight stays/younger kids...

Thanks for the link. I like the ideas for assignment partners and wish this teacher would do a little more of that.

For the trip, the kids all got to write down names of people they would like to room with (confidentially) and then two teachers did the assignments. I think they put a fair amount of thought into it. My son wrote down two girls' names. I think the teacher thought this inappropriate (duh) and told me that he didn't give her a lot of options. I pointed out to her that he may not have put boys names down because he didn't think anyone would want to room with him and it's too risky to write a name. Again, this doesn't take a lot of imagination on my part, but it seems to be too much for her.

I've told my son to take the mattress from his bunk and put it on the floor in the other room and just say "hey guys I'm bunking in here." He thinks that would be weird. I've told him it would be really normal. Apparently the adult in the next room really gets these kids, so I'm going to ask him if he can be sure that this happens. A neighbor/parent knows the two kids in the next room and says they are really nice.

So, I'm okay, my son seems okay, but I still think it's a really bad idea. The neighbor whose son is 6th grade, same school, said that he would not be able to sleep in the room alone. No way. I don't know.

Benny