Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Please help with these scores

Hi everyone,

I am new to this and could use some help. We just received my almost 9 year old daughter's WISC IV scores. They are not particularly high and the results just do not seem to ring true with all that I know about my DD. Whenever I read articles about gifted kids, it is as if my daughter's gifts and personality is screaming at me from the page. She was a whizz at puzzles before she was even 2 years old. She had an enormous vocabulary as a 1 year old. Her empathy has always been beyond her years and she notices EVERYTHING, (does not miss a trick, so to speak). She is a quick learner and often times "gets it" immediately and then just knows stuff. Once she started reading she has always read about 3-4 years ahead of her peers. Everyone is always impressed by her and I am always getting comments from friends. She is a talented violin player. Sorry to go on, but I am trying to paint a picture of my DD and why her assessment scores just do not seem accurate.

One year ago, she took the NNAT and scored 128 which was a 97% percentile rank.

Here are the recent results from the WISC IV:

VCI: 114
POI: 106
WMI: 107
PSI: 115
FSIQ:114

Verbal Comprehension
Similarities: 10
Vocabulary: 14
Comprehension: 14

Perceptual Reasoning
Block Design: 14
Picture Concepts: 7
Matrix Reasoning: 12

Working Memory
Digit Span: 11
Letter-Numbering Sequence: 12

Processing Speed
Coding: 12
Symbol Search 13

Something of interest that the tester commented on was this:
"One characteristic that was noticed on a number of tasks and tests was an inconsistency in *****'s response pattern. On a number of subtests,***** got several responses incorrect, but would then get a correct answer before reaching the required number of �0� responses to discontinue. She would start to miss answers, suggesting that she had reached her maximum level of ability on the task, but would then get one or more answers correct. This pattern occurred on Similarities, Picture Concepts and Matrix Reasoning."

The tester's interpretation of this was the following, but I am wondering whether a tester, experienced in testing gifted children, would interpret it differently and wonder what the thoughts are on this board about all that I have presented:

"The implication of this suggested that ****** may sometimes show splinters of ability that suggest a higher level of ability than she is able to consistently produce. She may come out with responses to questions or problems that are significantly above what would be expected for her age, this may create a level of expectation of her overall level of ability, but it may not actually be in keeping with her ability to consistently perform."

Did you ask your daughter about how the assessment went?
Did she feel comfortable, nervous, etc?
Do you have achievement results that are more in line with what you've seen in her?
Those are some of the questions I'd ask myself if I were in your shoes. Hope this helps.

P.S. It may help to ask the tester about the discrepancy between the Naglieri and WISC results.

Thank you.

We plan to speak to the tester about the discrepancy.

I did ask my daughter about how the assessment went and she seemed to quite enjoy it, particularly the pattern blocks. She had it all figured out and told me that she surmised that when she got 3 incorrect answers, then that ended that section and they moved onto the next part She definitely felt comfortable, (the tester is our neighbour who she really likes and vice-versa)and the tester commented on how focused she was. That is another thing about my DD, she can be VERY focused when interested in something and she has many interests.

She has never taken any other tests.

Thank you Dottie,

Which achievement test would you recommend for my daughter, the WJ or the WIAT? Also, if she were to have her IQ assessed a second time, which test would you suggest?

The funny thing is with all of the above, is that my 7 year old DD was also tested with the WISC IV and did exceedingly well with a FSIQ at 129, when it was actually my older daughter whose scores we were most interested in

I would ask the tester if she checked the low scores (Picture Concepts and Similarities) to see if there was too much scatter to allow calculation or interpretation of the index scores. I would strongly suspect that the PRI is not a "valid" score due to subtest scatter but I don't have the tables you need to be able to tell for sure that the difference rises to the level of significance. Generally speaking subtest scatter of 7 points rises to the level of significance but it depends on the subtests being compared. There's a 4 pt discrepancy between the Picture Concepts score of 7 and the mean for the PRI of 11. That seems to me to be large enough that it would merit a cautious interpretation of the PRI (at the very least).

It's interesting that her scores are rather uniform except for the two subtests that measure the abstract reasoning and conceptualization ability (similarities = verbal, picture concepts = non-verbal). This would suggest that this is an area of relative weakness for her.

The fact that she apparently struggled to achieve the scores she got on those two subtests really emphasizes that this is an area of relative weakness to my mind.

I would consider following up with a WJ III ACH extended battery if possible. This may help clarify things for you and show whether there are any academic areas where she has corresponding weakness.

Patricia

Thanks to everyone that replies. I did not post this information earlier because I did not realize that MAPs was something like an achievment test. I forgot to add that in the fall my DD9 took the MAPs assessment and scored 215 for math and 212 for reading. I do not think that the reading was too accurate because her lexile level was way low for her and she was probably tired after taking the math right before. Anyhow, the scores she got were in the gifted range from the paper the guy showed me.

Does that add/mean anything along with her NNAT scores and the low score on the WISC-IV?

Using this link, those RIT scores correspond to 98% for Math and 95% for Reading (beginning of 3rd grade).
http://pickens.it.schoolfusion.us/m...ssionid=14d1e9266e4482d198ebc39c6e6bc9c3

NWEA anchors their "gifted" label to the 95% but most schools seem to use other criteria.

Do you have updated scores? You may also want to ask for her NWEA Student Progress Report and look at her growth.

It sounds like the MAP results are more in line with the NNAT.

P.S. Sounds like something else to bring up with the tester(WISC discrepancy with NNAT, MAP, and Mommy gut). Just curious, was the tester a private psych or someone with the school?

The tester is our neighbor who works for a school district, (not ours) and he is a school psychologist.

Maybe I should have her take the MAPs again this month. I am loathe to because it is a drive to the learning center, plus she did not really enjoy it. She did however enjoy the WISC-IV, (she talks about it as though it were fun), which is another reason why I do not know why she tested so low. Since she only tested that one time, there will not be a record of her Progress Report.

I spoke with the tester. However, he does not seem used to working with gifted kids, (given that he said that the IQ scores of my DD7, (129) was something he has only seen less than a handful of times in all his years), and certainly did not understand my questions about the scatter of DD9's PRI. In reading another post here, I understand it a lot more and when I checked this link:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Zbe0rBx...lt&resnum=1
realized that DD9's PRI scores are uninterpretable, (the spread is 7). What should I do now? I feel uncomfortable saying anything more to our tester, given that he is our neighbour.