Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Lying (4yo) liars who lie!

I need some help! DS4 has taken to lying and sneaking to get treats.

Before Halloween he raided the candy dish and hid the wrappers. He 'fessed up to being the culprit when I confronted him, so I didn't punish him beyond removing the candy dish and not giving him any more candy that day.

Then a week or so ago, he and a neighbor boy raided the leftover Halloween candy and lied about it. I have no doubt it was the neighbor's idea--he's older and he has a habit of leading DS4 into temptation. But still...

DS4 lost treats for 3 days.

Then, just now, I gave him some cheese while I prepared some hot chocolate for him. As a VERY unusual treat, he was going to be allowed to have some potato chips. He whined about having to eat the cheese, but I said, "You need some protein. Just wolf it down and then you can have the stuff you want." Almost as soon as I said it, he announced that he was done, and I heard the trash in the can settle a bit.

It didn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure out that he'd tossed the cheese--especially given that he hadn't allowed enough time for chewing! And he lied to me about it until I pointed out the cheese.

As a result, he's losing all treats for a week, and naturally I gave him the "I'm very disappointed" and "How can I trust you when you lie?" speeches. When he cried about it, I asked if he was upset about doing something wrong or upset about getting caught. That's when he decides to be truthful: "Upset at getting caught," he replied. Oh, child!

I know that some of this behavior is normal for the age. But I never went through it with DS7, who really just never, ever lied. Not ever. I have always known that DS7's behavior is not the norm, but it IS what I am used to. This is all new to me, and as I am as pathologically honest as DS7 is, I find it more disturbing than I probably should.

Any thoughts, suggestions, advice?

If it helps, DS4 is my highly emotional kid, very big on immediate gratification. So I really do know this is not so much a character flaw as a developmental phase and a "teachable moment." Still, it bothers me a lot!

What I did w/ DS once was when I knew he was telling the truth, I pretended not to know if he was lying or telling the truth. I pointed out b/c he has been developing a habit of lying, it's now impossible for me to know which is which. He seemed to really think about that and was quite upset that I didn't believe him. We also had the discussion that sometimes you don't get caught and you have to ask yourself if the lie is worth your self-esteem. We also talked about how there are times when you have to lie such as if a sibling is in trouble and lying will save them or prevent harm (be careful with that one if child is fearful of strangers etc).

Tell him that when he lies he has a VERY POWERFUL enemy:

Reality.

Sorry to hear that Kriston, but I'm sure you're right, it's just a phase. DS8 is sort of the unnaturally truthful sort too, so I am not so experienced with this either. We do have a close cousin (close in age and locale) who was getting into a habit of lying. At one point she and ds got into a bit of an argument over something and the sides as explained to parents were pretty different stories. I don't even remember the details but it came down to ds is considered truthful, and she was...well, not. A few more run-ins like that and she has really shaped up.

I would take the focus off the food, i.e. no more giving or witholding treats. Just don't even buy the stuff.

Yes it is very developmentally normal for this age. I work with kids this age all day long and focus on development, etc. as it's part of my job. But it is interesting how different children can be. My DS4, similar to your DS7, is very much a truth teller and I keep expecting this phase to hit at some point. But it doesn't with everyone. he's always told on himself and put himself in timeout. Anyhow, when kids this young do start the lying they are just testing things out and figuring out how to serve their own needs (providing they don't see lots of role models lying regularly). They want to see what will happen. It's good to teach them how lying effects others and how they would feel if others lied to them (at this age just having a little 2 min. conversation about it is sufficient). Most things I have read say ease up on kids lying around this age. Address it, but don't go overboard about it because it doesn't meant they will have a lifetime of lying. But I know how that isn't always easy to do. I say address it, talk about the effect, have some consequence for it and move on. If it's more of a pattern, like dazed and confused said I have talked with kids about not being sure what to believe if they don't tell me the truth. But with little things that I know are stories, I emphasize the difference between real and pretend. Like we don't tell a story about someone pushing you in pre-school if it didn't really happen. When it seems fishy I will say "is that real or pretend?" and usually they fess up (usually being the operative word). If they are headstrong I will go further, but again you have to pick your battles and ask yourself is it worth it.

I don't! It was all Halloween stuff. Even the candy before Halloween was given to us. I had it out to give to guests so that none of us would eat it!

(Okay, I will confess that the chips I bought for me because I'd been craving them. But the kids saw 'em, so I was sharing.)

The trouble is that they had a HUGE haul of Halloween candy (Thanks, DH...You couldn't have ended the evening early? *sigh*), and I only allow them each 3 pieces of candy per day, and then only after they eat a good dinner.

Honestly, junk is NOT the norm around here!

Besides, I have a feeling that if it weren't this, he'd be lying and sneaking something else...

Sorry, Kriston! I didn't think you were hosting a junk food fest, I just noticed that the lying incidents you described were all food related.

Yes, he may well lie about other stuff. But my strategy with lying at that age was to reduce the opportunities for lying. If I knew that they'd done something wrong, I would just address the issue directly rather than questioning them about it and possibly giving them an opportunity to lie.

LOL! Thanks CFK. I needed that!

He is very imaginative and highly sensitive to the feelings of others. He comes home from school every day and gives me the rundown of all the social issues in class that day: who played with whom, who got angry, who was mean, etc. So I think what you're saying about perspective fits him.

Or he's just being four! :p

LOL! No offense taken here, Cathy. Maybe just a little of my own potato chip-related guilt showing through there...

I think I just have a junk food junkie on my hands in a mostly non-junk food house. He's also my picky eater, so I suppose it's natural (though not okay!) that he'd break rules and even my trust to get what he wants. His big brother claims broccoli as one of his favorite foods. Not so with DS4.

I completely agree with you that not giving him the chance to lie is the key. But when he tosses his cheese out, I'm not sure there's any way around it...treat or no treat. More than anything I think he just didn't want to eat the cheese.