Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links


Learn about Davidson Academy Online - for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S. & Canada.

The Davidson Institute is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Fellows Scholarship
  • Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute

  • Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update Newsletter >

    Free Gifted Resources & Guides >

    Who's Online Now
    0 members (), 121 guests, and 14 robots.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    sailare, malik, watkinsayden81, thomaszx, Peter Jhonson
    11,480 Registered Users
    July
    S M T W T F S
    1 2 3 4 5 6
    7 8 9 10 11 12 13
    14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    21 22 23 24 25 26 27
    28 29 30 31
    Previous Thread
    Next Thread
    Print Thread
    Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4
    Joined: Nov 2008
    Posts: 77
    M
    montana Offline OP
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    M
    Joined: Nov 2008
    Posts: 77
    Thank you guys so much! Already I can tell this place will help me feel better!

    So, I tried to figure out the quoting thing, but I am apparently too tired and braindead. So, um..hmm. point. Ok. I'll try and go through and respond in order to everyone.

    Kriston, I have considered grade skip and homeschooling. Homeschooling I think about but worry about socialization,b/c my son really likes being with groups that are WORKING for him. Also, I worry about me. See braindead, above, and small baby. And we would be a lot more secure if I can get a job, you know? we're kind of scrambling a bit just now- we moved into this town last year FOR the school system and safe neighborhood thing. It's frustrating to think if we'd stayed in our mold-ridden place on a 60mph road with no children around, we could maybe have afforded private school. So there's money, there's worry that I wouldn't be a good teacher, there's ds's loneliness-- but there's also this feeling that we would be butting heads terribly, that it would be too much closeness or something. He's terribly strong willed, and probably I am too, really. It just feels like a good idea intellectually IFF I could keep it together to actually teach instead of leaving him to his own devices while I read things and fed the baby...but I don't really trust myself on that, and I have this worried feeling that then our relationship would become contentious instead of safe for him.

    Grade skip I don't think the school does willingly...but I also have reservations about it. DS is really sensitive and cries easily. He's been gross-motor delayed. He's very short...even as one of the oldest kids in his class, there are girls nearly a year younger than him who are taller than him. And he CARES, a lot, about being teased for being slow or physically inept. He's also not incredibly socially at ease. No wonder, really, but I feel like he's kind of maturity-wise where he should be, and I hate to expose him to feeling little and less with much older kids.

    And there's also a bad family history with grade skips. My mom did two, and always felt so out of it socially, has had life-long poor self-concept and is quite depressed and has trouble connecting with people/making friends. My brother-in-law was skipped one, and was never able to make friends, protected himself against feeling out of things by feeling superior, has a lot of trouble with dating, has a troubled marriage, and has been in grad school for 16 years w/o getting a degree, has no job, and is pretty conflicted and unhappy. My grad school roommate and her eventual husband were skipped a year...my friend therefore developed later than other kids and worried she was lesbian b/c not interested in boys at same time, and feels that it made her promiscuous to try to counter that. Her husband, who's short like my son, but athletically gifted, unlike my son, felt constantly unsafe and was held back a year in 7th grade when they moved, and then felt SO much better and did great after that. My brother was sent early to school, and spent his life being really picked on and feeling miserable. My second brother my mom held back a year, and he was then taller and more coordinated...he was less picked on, though still some. I thought she made a terrible decision at the time, but looking back, I think it was brave and good of her to do the social hold back. (all of these people are gifted, btw).

    So all the examples I happen to know involve long-term unhappiness with the skip. I know this is anecdotal. But also, in most of these cases...the people share genes with my son. So my dh and I are really worried about it. In our cases, b/c of dh's brother and my mom's experience, we were not skipped. We were in multi-age classrooms and subject accelerated. And we both feel we had an easier time and are happier adults. And that's what we want for our kids...that they be happy, productive adults, not that they necessarily win the Nobel (my dh's parents' goal for him, I kid you not. They still call up to berate him for not doing better on that!)

    I've also thought, it's not like he just read the 'wrong' books and has contraband information, and after the classes catch up he'll be all the same as the other kids. He learns fast, and I feel like no matter where he skips to, he'll have this problem of being driven nuts by the instruction. Which is really repetitive and test-driven.

    So I've noticed that grade skipping seems to be thought the best-practice thing to do...but I'm concerned about it for my particular son. My second son, I'm considering letting him do the early kindergarten thing, b/c he is more socially able and very good athletically. He is still short and sensitive, but he doesn't have as many counter-indications, I think. I really don't know about that, but I've got a year or two to worry about it.

    And, #3 is stirring, so I think I'll post this now rather than counting on having time to respond to everyone. I would, at any rate, really appreciate thoughts on the grade skips...I sure notice that we seem to be in a real minority in thinking the grade skip is not nec. such a good idea, and that makes me wonder if we're idiots.

    Joined: Nov 2008
    Posts: 77
    M
    montana Offline OP
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    M
    Joined: Nov 2008
    Posts: 77
    Dottie wrote: Why is she so disturbed? Does she think it's because you've pushed your child? (Not true, but at least somewhat understandable) Or is she that concerned that he "be normal"? (EXTREMELY disturbing!) The latter situation seems toxic to me.

    I think SHE feels embarrassed, exposed. She said that one of the playground teachers came and asked her if she was MAKING him do the math at recess, and she was like, no, NO!! She wanted my permission to forbid him doing extra work in class, which I did not give. I pointed out that he really liked learning. She was all, that's great, we don't want to take that away from him, but...

    Once ds did his homework overnight and proudly brought it in to her, telling her that he'd been working on it on the bus. She told him he couldn't do that. Didn't give a reason. If she'd said, your handwriting needs help, I'd have understood and helped ds with, but she didn't. As a kid who ALWAYS used the bus to finish homework so my home time was mine, this one made me really angry.

    It all makes me really angry. It's also so puzzling...a teacher who's against learning.

    I don't know, Dottie, what her deal is with the reading. She thinks he's making it up, I guess. I don't know how she thinks he can make it up...I guess she thinks he's lying when he says he's read or can read something. But I also think she just doesn't get it, she doesn't SEE it. It's her first year of 1st grade. Last year she taught 5th, and we were hoping that would make her MORE able to stretch for him, not less.

    Oh, and I did get that application done. Good GRIEF, that thing was long!! Now I'll just chew my nails for 4-6 weeks, I suppose. Yay dizzy post-partum hormones, though, you're right. Must. Save. Child!

    Joined: Nov 2008
    Posts: 77
    M
    montana Offline OP
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    M
    Joined: Nov 2008
    Posts: 77
    Minnie, I can't believe you're a historian from Montana!! With 3 boys! And here I thought I was at least unusual, lol! Do you mind telling me where in MT, and what kind of history? (you too, Katelyn's Mom?) It's really cool to have historians here- I haven't run into that in other online communities. It's nice not to be so strange!

    It's kind of weird how cloaked I feel like I have to be here, though, like this is the deepest darkest secret and I wouldn't want anyone in real life to catch me posting here! But I suppose I can tell you south-central montana, near Yellowstone, and history-wise, western, native, environmental, colonial/19th century. I really wish we could move 'home'...that whole salmon economy thing certainly applies to us. I even got my dh to call the U of M to ask if they had facilities he needs for his research...nope. :-(


    Joined: Nov 2008
    Posts: 77
    M
    montana Offline OP
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    M
    Joined: Nov 2008
    Posts: 77
    RJH...that sounds just HORRIBLE!! At least mine is getting smiley faces. Though if he adds something they haven't done to the homework she asks him how he learned that in class, which just feels kind of odd. I wanted to pull my son the day the teacher called and never send him back, truly. Maybe in future I will. I have a friend who's homeschooling, and I bought a resource book I like. But just now, I feel worried about it, that I really wouldn't do it well.

    Master of None...I'm really going to think about this. I HATE conflict. Really really do. And I think I have absorbed some sort of sense of shame, the way even the people who have really loved and appreciated DS have told us, strongly, not to go around alienating teachers by saying he's gifted, that sort of thing. And there's just such a strong sense of you are wrong I get. I'm probably over-sensitive. But the principal won't even meet my eyes. And I swear I have had zero confrontation with him...all that's happened in my dh has had a few meetings with him about ds's unhappiness, in which we've demanded nothing and listened to what they said.

    And I guess I feel it with friends, too. the very existing is bragging thing. I have friends whose kids seem def. more able than mine, but the kids in question are happy in a way mine isn't, so I'm the one being all up in arms about things.

    I wish I could hire someone to play the role of mother in all of these confrontations. Maybe that's part of my Davidson fantasy-- someone ELSE would be the authority I'm just citing. I am, at my very core, shy. I learned to hide it...but these things aren't my strength. I hate the thought that I'm letting my weakness make ds's life worse...ugh. I'm really going to have to think about this. I try so hard to be accommodating. Maybe I'll ask for EPGY instead of ALEKS, eh?

    Joined: Nov 2008
    Posts: 77
    M
    montana Offline OP
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    M
    Joined: Nov 2008
    Posts: 77
    Ebeth, I think you're probably right about needing to teach these people about gifted kids. This makes me want to stick my head under the covers and not come out. They are NOT all warm and friendly. The parent school assemblies are all about terrorism lock-downs and about how the curriculum is now in One Big Book, so that we can Know Our Child Gets The Exact Same Education No Matter The Classroom. I just don't even know where to start. Truly. I feel like we don't have an ally. We have to go to a HUGE meeting tomorrow that they called, b/c we asked if ds's psychologist could do a classroom evaluation, as he's been unhappy and they themselves said he was having social problems. Now we have to have an 8 person meeting to even get permission to have him evaluated!

    I've been doing research, and they have like half the instruction time for english, math, science, of comparable districts in the state, and twice the administrative staff. And they're so out of money, but they keep buying these electronic whiteboards that as far as I can see are not being used at all effectively in the classrooms. It's like tech for tech's sake, not tech that anyone knows how to use to enhance learning. And then they have no money or time for the top 50% of kids. Every school meeting we go to, it's about special needs and how they're aiming to help that population. Which I don't want to steal $$ from...but geez, their state test scores are slipping dreadfully, don't they think that ignoring half the school might have something to do with that? I just don't know HOW to change anything or WHERE to start. I wrote my state rep, asking her to explain to me the history of the financial constraints placed on schools so I'd understand and not be asking the wrong thing of the wrong place or demanding impossibilities. I was so frustrated...she ignored me, and I got a solicitation for her campaign. BITE me.

    But, thank you for those links...I especially liked that blog...and yes, I think ds's teacher is out there with her scythe!

    Barbara, thank you for the welcome! And questions, I really hope I can get to where you are sometime soon! I'd love to hear any homeschooling decision-making stories any of you might feel like telling, as that and the grade skip are both my biggest concerns and the most obvious fixes.

    sorry to have written a ton. I just don't want to ignore anyone when you've all been so full of ideas and welcome! I really appreciate it!

    Joined: Mar 2007
    Posts: 797
    acs Offline
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Mar 2007
    Posts: 797
    Originally Posted by montana
    So I've noticed that grade skipping seems to be thought the best-practice thing to do...but I'm concerned about it for my particular son. My second son, I'm considering letting him do the early kindergarten thing, b/c he is more socially able and very good athletically. He is still short and sensitive, but he doesn't have as many counter-indications, I think. I really don't know about that, but I've got a year or two to worry about it.

    You are not alone in being cautious about skipping. I was grade skipped (skipped first grade) and didn't like it at all. But it was a small town and it was a big deal. I lost a lot of friends and was shunned in my new class. And when I quickly moved to the top of my new class, the kids who had been top really resented me. In junior high I hated being behind physically and that just made me feel even less like I fit in. I did recover socially by mid high school. Perhaps all that made me a stronger and more resiliant person. Maybe I am better because of having to overcome obstacles. Maybe I wouldn't have fit in with my old class (although we had gotten off to a grand start!). I guess it is possible the skip was good for me; we'll never know for sure. But I will say it was very painful and I would not want to put a child through what I went through.

    DS was offered a skip and said, "no way. Let me stay with my friends." He is not skipped but subject accelerated and is really thriving.

    Skipping is a tool. Used in the right situation it can be a great thing. But used badly it creates more problems. I do not think skips are the answer for all kids, but they should be an option to be considered. There is just a lot to consider in making the decision--it is very individual.

    Joined: Dec 2007
    Posts: 902
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Dec 2007
    Posts: 902
    PM for you


    LMom
    Joined: Jul 2008
    Posts: 149
    B
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    B
    Joined: Jul 2008
    Posts: 149
    I, too, felt that DS9 and my relationship would degenerate into head-butting if we attempted homeschooling, and to a certain extent it has, but the alternative (public school) was so terrifically awful for him that here we are! We do have access to and Alternative Public School though where he can get 8 hours of instruction a week, and the classes are pretty cool.

    I have had to let go of some illusions regarding homeschooling because of his personality which is "I want to learn what I want to learn and that's the way it is" *sigh*

    Joined: Dec 2005
    Posts: 7,207
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Dec 2005
    Posts: 7,207
    Originally Posted by montana
    And I guess I feel it with friends, too. the very existing is bragging thing. I have friends whose kids seem def. more able than mine, but the kids in question are happy in a way mine isn't, so I'm the one being all up in arms about things.

    It turns out that MG (moderatly gifted, I guess with in about a half standard deviation of the cut of line) kids are much more able to 'do school' than kids who are farther out. Getting scores that qualify for Davidson YSP mean that he's got beyond what the test can accuratly measure, so he may be far above MG, or far,far,far above MG. Hard to know, but it sure makes a difference when trying to figure out what the teachers are asking for.

    Then there is personality. Some of our little boys are affronted by the situations that they are placed in. They react to 'getting less praise than everyone else' with anger. This makes compliance with adults, or even trust of adults really really hard. Most teachers do want to hear from a kid that they need to earn that child's trust. I would say that my son started off being willing to trust but not being able to ignore reasons to withdraw trust. Then he just started with 'prove it to me.'

    Anyway, please don't compare your kid to your friends kids and feel badly about yourself or your kid. Even if they just plain are better at fitting in, oh well, that's the challenge you have been handed.

    ((shrug))

    Grinity


    Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com
    Joined: Dec 2005
    Posts: 7,207
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Dec 2005
    Posts: 7,207
    Originally Posted by Barbara
    I have had to let go of some illusions regarding homeschooling because of his personality which is "I want to learn what I want to learn and that's the way it is" *sigh*

    I'm one of those who hasn't ever homeschooled, but I do have romantic notions about it. At 9 years old, is there any harm in letting them learn only what they want to learn?

    BTW, Barbara - if you need some help tricking them into accepting what you think they need to learn by hooking it up to what they want to learn, just post - I'm scary-good at perspective flipping! In my world, everything is connected to everything!

    smiles,
    Grinity


    Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com
    Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4

    Moderated by  M-Moderator 

    Link Copied to Clipboard
    Recent Posts
    help understanding wppsi scores
    by lululo4321 - 07/19/24 02:42 PM
    Opinions on School
    by Heidi_Hunter - 07/16/24 10:52 AM
    Adventure Academy
    by Heidi_Hunter - 07/11/24 04:29 AM
    IEP questions
    by Heidi_Hunter - 07/11/24 04:22 AM
    Advice for profoundly gifted and imaginative 7yo?
    by Kim Jensen (DK) - 07/05/24 08:32 AM
    Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5