Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Gifted ID Pre-Kindergarten

Hello! We suspect our son who is about to enter kindergarten in the fall is gifted. We are concerned that the instruments used as part of his evaluation will be inappropriate. Our district does not ID gifted until third grade, and has been under-identifying gifted. He has thus far been given a PIAT and a K-BIT with oddly incongruous results. Any suggestions? Thanks!

We had our son tested just before he turned 5, the spring before he should have started kindergarten. He was first assessed with the Woodcock Johnson Achievement tests. With those results (all 98% and higher), we headed to the Belin-Blank Center in Iowa for testing to provide the school with information, as we were requesting early entrance to first grade. There, he was tested with the Standford-Binet 5 and then an out of level test for end of the year first graders (Comprehensive Test Program by Educational Records Bureau). The examiner also tested him for ADHD and general adjustment issues at our request, as the school was concerned about "maturity" and ability to handle first grade. The combination of tests was enough to get him into first grade.

You might want to check out articles on Hoagies about why test scores vary. I don't know much about the two tests your son has had. There are many reasons why children's test scores might vary. And the older the child, the more reliable the results, so I've heard. It has been suggested that our son be retested at the age of 7 or 8 as his test scores are likely to even out more and be more "true" as far as IQ.

Hoagies page also has nice descriptions of all the different tests available.

Are you considering early entrance to first grade or looking for differentiation? Is the testing going to be done by the school district or privately? If privately, you should look for someone experienced with testing gifted kids, and interpreting results for gifted kids. It's important to look at the big picture, not just the final scores.

Even if your district has no program for younger grades, early identification could support grade-skipping (if that's something you're interested in). I also think diagnostic testing can help identify learning disabilitites, strengths, weaknesses, etc.
Cym

I encourage you to get private testing, and to read up at hoagiesgifted.org about the various tests. If that is in your mind, the next question is "how far should I travel?"

If your child is up in the top 2% of IQ, then local psychologists with experience in testing gifted should be ok. If your child is in the top .01%, plan to research and travel, it will be worth your while. Which begs the question, how does one know in advance?

One way is to read Dr. Ruf's book. Here's a discription from Hoagies:

Losing Our Minds: Gifted Children Left Behind by Deborah L. Ruf
Using gifted children as examples, Ruf illustrates five levels of giftedness, which parents will be able to estimate in their child by comparing developmental milestones...

or you can start with a web version at educationaloptions.com

http://www.educationaloptions.com/raising_gifted_children.htm

If you wish, post more details about your concerns. We love to hear all the stuff you can't tell your neighbors.

welcoming smiles,
Trinity

I came across some links from the Davidson Gifted Database about gifted Pre-schoolers. Here they are:

http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10106.aspx

http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10082.aspx

Smiles,
Trinity

Does anyone know a good psychologist who is experienced in gifted children in Southern California?
My 3 yo taught himself to read and write at about 2.5 yo. He was evaluated at 35 mos to have a cognitive ability of 50 mos but he was too tired to continue the test. However, I'm a little concerned about a few "quirks". My family thinks I'm overreacting, but i want to make sure that if he has issues, we can address them early and appropriately. I want someone who understands gifted children so he does not get misdiagnosed.
Thanks.
Jon's mom

Hi Jon's mom,
don't buy what 'everyone' says about you overreacting. Unless they have all raised 17 happy and successful kids who taught themselves to read at age 3, ok?

Check out Deb Ruf's book or website - Losing our minds- gifted children left behind, to see if those quirks are part of the typical "alternate developmental path" of unusually gifted kids. You can do a phone consult with her, and I will keep looking for Southern California names for you. But you definitly want someone familiar with "your kind of gifted" which is much rarer than "MOR Gifted" ((middle of the road gifted))

You have a few more years before the YSP kicks in, but tell us more about the quirks and we'll share as best we can, ok?

Best Wishes,
Trin

Hi Trinity,
Thank you. I have read D. Ruf's book. I feel like she was talking about my son. My son learned the alphabet, numbers, colors and shapes at about 14 mos. Now, he can identify colors and can count in three languages.
He likes to repeat words, stories, phrases from what he has heard before. When he speaks, it sounds scripted. My gut feeling is that it may be because we speak five different languages at home. Although his primary language is English and at 3 has a 1st grade vocabulary, he only hears it on TV or when we talk "to him" not "with him". My husband and I don't speak English to each other.
He does not like to play with young children but loves older kids and adults. Maybe it's because he is an only child. At the playground, he will introduce himself to the parents but would completely ignore their kids.
He seems to have some "fears". He is scared of people fighting or getting hurt on TV. For awhile he was very affected by Super Grover falling from the sky. His grandma and babysitter lives with us so whenever we go out, he would refuse to leave without holding on to everyone's hands, making sure everybody is accounted for and no one gets left behind.
He loves to watch the same DVD or listen to the same music for a a few days at a time.
What do you all think?
Thnak you again,
Jon's mom

Hi Jon's Mom,
Good for you for building such a secure nest for Jon! I'm glad you got to see your family in a book. I think everyone deserves that.

As for the fears, I think of highly gifted kids as though they haven't got the normal protection of skin that other kids seem to have. So the fears will be loud and deeply expressed. I remember my own son protesting vigerously at the movie "Fly Away Home" every time the Dad or the Girl got into the airplane. I don't remember how young he was, just that he could walk, and not talk much. (I had skipped ahead past the car crash while he was out of the room, for those of you who know the film) I really wanted to watch the uplifting movie about the girl who saves ducks. DS wasn't having any of it - wordlessly letting us know that he did NOT want to see that little girl fly in that little plane! We gave up trying to watch it, which I encourage you to do if Grover's flying produces a similar effect.

It helps me to re-read Pearl S. Buck on creativity:

The truly creative mind in any field is no more than this: a human creature born abnormally, inhumanly sensitive. To him, a touch is a blow, a sound is a noise, a misfortune is a tragedy, a joy is an ecstasy, a friend is a lover, a lover is a god, and failure is death. Add to this cruelly delicate organism the overpowering necessity to create, create, create - so that without the creating of music or poetry or books or buildings or something of meaning, his very breath is cut off from him. He must create, must pour out creation. By some strange, unknown, inward urgency he is not really alive unless he is creating.

Not all gifted kids are creative artist, but many have that exaggerated sensitiviy that is just "wired" into them from birth.
See Mellow Out, They Say. If I Only Could: Intensities and Sensitivities of the Young and Bright by Michael M. Piechowski which is aimed at parents of teens but terrific for understanding youself, your spouse, family members, and you son even now.

As far as your son wanting to do a head count, that does, to me, seem a normal reaction to his abnormal early awareness of the dangers of life as well as his own weaknesses. You may want to pick your battles here as you give in to his wishes, but gently lead him toward accepting you as the "in charge, responsible party."


Raising Your Spirited Child: A Guide for Parents Whose Child Is More Intense, Sensitive, Perceptive, Persistent, Energetic by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka (Paperback - April 1, 1998)

Is a classic guide to handling this type of quirk. I agree that finding a professional to help guide your parenting would be a nice resource to have.

It doesn't sound like he is having balance problems, or physical oversensitivities, such as being picky about tags in shirts and socks. Those quirks are often helped by occupational therapists. I'm guessing that reading stories of people who over come great obstacles is going to by your ticket through these fears. I think your Jon is going to need a differnt super-hero than Grover. ((wink)) You can start with "The little engine that could," but I think your son is going to want to hear about real life people.

Of course, one of the biggest differences you can make in your child's life involves deciding to have more kids. Is Jon an "only?" My DS is. If you Jon is an only, and there is a possibility of "more where he came from," I would encourage you to think in this direction.

Why?, well,in general, two of my favorite Mom-resources have said how useful it was. My reaction to raising my own "worried boy" was to shelter him from the stress of siblings and I didn't feel the urge until he was 5 years old. Turns out that sometimes siblings are similar enough that they can share so much with each other. They tend to be within 15 points of IQ, so there is much less of a spread than in a classroom of neighborhood. Mostly though, having more than one child limits the Mom's ability to "make everyone happy" all the time. It's as though having another child sends the message, "I believe in your ability to cope with this." Plus, protecting someone even younger is a great way to calm our own self, haven't you found that? I know I have.

Oh, and about your kid not wanting to play with other children. It isn't because he's an only, he just wants to play with people who can "play back." That part is totally normal. Some gifted kids like to play with younger ones who let them lead, or because they have more access to their immagination, but many many kids whan to play with kids on their mental level, not their birthday level.

I'd love to hear about what other folks think aboout these issues.

Trin

Well, Trin, I usually agree with you, but I have a completely different take on this one. As a counselor who works with families, I have found that the best reason to have another child is because you and your partner really want one. When a parent has a child *for* someone else, such as to help another child, they are setting themselves up for some real disappointments--what if the children really don't get along? what if the second child has serious medical needs which puts a huge financial and emotional stress on the family? I have seen these things happen and the parent who decided to have a second child for the first child often has a much harder time dealing with the consequences than if they have the second child because they really want the second child. It can turn out well, of course, but I've seen it turn out very badly, with lots of guilt, anxiety and pain. That's my professional experience.

Here's my personal experience. I have 2 older siblings; we are all HG+. I found growing up in this circumstance very difficult. Because what I am about to say sounds very harsh, let me preface my remarks by saying my siblings are good people and we have a pretty nice set of parents who did a good job with us, but that does not take away the problems we had. My older brother was very smart, inquisitive, somewhat anxious, and perfectionistic. There is no doubt in my mind that he had a hard time adjusting to losing time with his parents when we younger two were born. He missed the intellectually stimulating conversations he had had with the adults who were now too busy to talk to him. I believe that he coped with this stress by over-identifying with his parents. He took on the role of mini-parent, but he lacked the perspective to be a good parent. His anxiety and perfectionism made him over-protective and tyrannical, all under the guise of being an ideal older brother. I grew up with him criticizing and mocking every thing I did; nothing was good enough unless it was just like he did it. I have tons of examples, but I will spare you. It was not until many years later that my parents had a clue how harsh he was with us; they just thought he was a devoted older brother. DH, the youngest of 4 gifted kids, shares almost the exact experience. This probably happens in non-gifted families too, but, I think it can be way more extreme when the oldest is very gifted and has perfectionist tendencies. The gifted older also has many more subtle ways of manipulating the family--the bullying was mostly psychological and under the guise of doing what is best for us.

I will also add that my parents often felt that they were not able to adequately nurture our gifts and advocate for all 3 of us because of limitations time, money, and energy. A family should consider all these things when deciding on family size.

There are tons of ways to help an anxious child that I think are more effective than bringing on sibs (I think that made my brother's anxiety worse). I suggest The Anxiety Cure for Kids as a great place to start. It helped us immensely.

And, Jon's Mom, sorry for this unsolicited treatise on family size. I know that wasn't the question you asked; I just get all goofy when I hear someone suggesting an appropriate family size for someone else--it's just way too personal a decision.

And Trin, this one disagreement doesn't make me respect your other ideas any less. I appreciate all your contributions!!