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Does anyone think that GT kids who are self motivated to read should be required to participate in AR? My DD(9)reads well above her grade level. She is in 3rd grade in a school that only goes to 5th grade, conequently, the library does not have many books at her level that she is interested in that are also on the AR test list.

I really think that she should be encouraged to continue reading and if they want to give her credit 'like AR' she should be asked to write a report or given an oral test. Instead, they want to deduct from her ELA grade for not making her required points.

What say you experienced GT guides?

I was told last year that almost all books can now be found on the accelerated reader list, although I am sure it takes a little bit for the brand new ones to show up.

I have told my GT students to make use of the public library as much as possible. One of my GT students took a reading list that I had and looked up the AR level and point value for me - this should be available from your school either in a notebook or on the computer.

Also, AR level is just based on vocabulary. I have found that it is very rare to find a fiction book above an 8th grade AR level. Also there are 4th grade level books in AR that I would not allow even a 5th grader to read because of the content or the depth of the topic. I feel too many students are choosing books based on AR level only and not on the content or topic.

Has she read any of the Lois Lowry books? You might look into these - although they are 4th and 5th grade AR level, they have a very deep level of thought that is required to understand them. I would suggest reading one of them first, so you can decide whether she will like them. I am talking about The Giver, The Messenger, Finding Blue, and Gossamer. Lowry has also written some books on lighter topics as well, although I have never read them.

I will look up the Lowry books.

yes, many books have tests available, however, her school does not have them. I have offered to purchase the tests for the school but the response was not favorable.

I wonder if AR is all that important for a child who reads every chance she gets? At our school, it seems to be used mainly as a motivational tool for reading. If the kids reach their goals, they get to go to a party and get a useless plastic trinket to put on their backpack. DD isn't motivated by the reward at all.

I'm not sure I wouldn't challenge the who notion of the program as it stands for a GT reader. I mean, what's the goal of AR? To limit what kids read? Or to push them to read more?

If the list of "acceptable" books is too limited, then it seems to me that someone needs to ask if the AR program is counterproductive to the goal of teaching LA to that child. Or perhaps to GT kids in general!

I confess, through these posts, what I'm hearing is the school saying "The bureacracy is more important than the child," and that always gets my dander up!

<end rant>

I'm not thinking it's beaurocracy that is the concern. I think that there are so few GT kids where DD is (just 4 out of 100ish 3rd graders.)that they are expected to do as all are doing other than the "pull out program". Unfortunately where we live, there are no other viable options. We had tried private school, but they were totally clueless as to differentiation and accomodation. DD was EXCEPTIONALLY bored, though she didn't ever act out or anything. I am not equipt to hs, so here we are.

DD likes school and has learned to deal with some of the social issues and her teachers challenge her for the most part, except for this AR thing which seems senseless.

We will be meeting with the teacher soon, so we will see how the saga continues or ends....

I generally have liked the AR system. Here are my reasons:
1. Until this week, our school has had every test available for books listed on the AR quiz site.
2. Beginning in 2nd grade I started guiding GS's reading choices based on what I found on the AR site.
GS picks out whatever fiction he wants to read(within some limits by me!) and takes AR tests on them if they're AR.
I pick out nonfiction books that enhance other material they are doing in class. Nonfiction at the same level as fiction is much harder to Ace, and requires more effort(at least that's true if the kid reads fiction like popping M&M's!).
3. The instant feedback on individual tests kept me informed on how well GS was reading. That tells me how to guide him to learn better.
4. GS is allowed to read at his own level, not limited by what books are in the classroom or school library. I probably use my library card more than my credit card.


Downside:
1. (Not so bad!) I read a lot of the books before allowing GS9 to read them. Many in his reading level might not be appropriate for a 9 year old, or maybe they address social issues that I think we need to discuss as a family.
2. A lot of fun books that other 4th & 5th graders are reading are below his level. Just this week his teacher said he could not use those for points any more. He hadn't used more than 1 or 2 for that, up to this point, but she's keeping public score of percentage of goal made. I'm wondering if she's trying to keep him from making it a blowout.
3. Once goals are met, not enough leeway is given on what should be read on a regular basis.

Well this:



and this:


say to me that "the way things are" or the AR system (which = "bureaucracy" in terms of the school) is more important than what is good for your child. They want her to fit into the system, even though she's beyond the system's capacity to teach her.



The notion of penalizing her grade really steams me. Well, school system, then give her books that both interest her and meet the AR criteria. Can't do that? Then the system doesn't work for her and they need to find another solution, such as the ones you've recommended.

I think I'd be fighting pretty hard on this one if I were in your shoes. My injustice meter is off the charts! I feel like they're losing sight of the forest for the trees here. They've got a good reader who likes to read, and they're going to work hard to shut that down because they don't have and won't get the resources that she needs, but they also won't adapt the system in simple ways to meet her needs. That's the very definition of bureaucratic insanity to me!

Sorry, you're dealing with a former English teacher, here. This is the kind of stuff that made me crazy when students finally got to me in college. The things some of their schools had done to them to kill the love of literature and writing...

Please don't misunderstand me. I agree, Dottie et al, that the concept of AR is fine. My problem is with the practice in Mamabear's DD's case. THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH BOOKS AND TESTS AT HER DD'S LEVEL! That's a serious problem! And they refuse to adapt to fix the serious problem.

This is not a problem with AR, but with the bureaucracy of that particular school. This is what is steaming me.

AR itself seems like a pretty decent program, and I never intended to criticize it. But a progem only works if the school has the resources to use it with the actual kids it has. If a kid doesn't fit the program, then something has to give, and it shouldn't be the kid!

Programs should fit kids, kids shouldn't be squeezed to fit programs!

In some ways, I understand the "suck it up" and just get your points, but I feel like she does "suck it up" doing the homework that she doesn't need or enjoy. She knows that if she just sits down and does it then it's an hour or so out of her afternoon. (She gets all of her weekly homework on Monday and can do all of it or just what is assigned for each day.) Typically she bangs it all out on Monday.

The AR thing is really the only issue she is bucking about. So, I thought I might take a chance that we could work something out that is more interesting to her. She actually likes research and writing and that sounds like a better skill to be practiced rather than remembering details of a book for an ABC test.

IMHO

I'm coming in late, but here's my $0.02. AR in elementary school has worked for my kids in motivating them to read. A few yrs ago we were limited by which books were on the AR, but now almost everything seems to be on it. If the school library doesn't have a lot of higher level books, the public library does. I do not like AR to be the entire reading "curriculum" for a kid. Luckily, we also do "book studies", where the class reads a book in class together and has worksheets, discussions, projects. My 3rd grader is currently doing a book study on Lois Lowry's "Number the Stars", so he's learning about WWII and the Holocaust as well as some analysis of the book (theme, characters, plot, etc.)

I am not an advocate for AR after elementary school.

If AR does not fit your child and she's already an avid reader, I would talk to teacher/principal to see if accommodations can be made.

I appreciate all the input. I had a "heart to Heart" with dd last night. Though we talk about how school is going every day, when there is a conference coming up, I like to really get a good sense of what she hopes we will discuss and what she likes and doesn't like.

I even talked to her about a grade skip since she is all "A"'s and isn't really working for them. (As I said, she can do all her homework for the week in one afternoon!) She really loves her teacher and she says she does get extra stuff to do that the other kids are not doing, like research. She loves that and is afraid that if she skips that could be taken away from her.

I guess we just have lots to talk about with the teacher and you are correct, you get more flies with honey than vinegar! I feel like we can work this out with minimal if any defensiveness. I have to be sure to take my notes - I get a little nervous, so I have to bring crib notes!

Our meeting is next week so I have some time to grab all the ideas I am getting from all of you! What a great group you are!!!

DD9's school does AR. Since our district's schools are such that all 4th and 5th graders attend the same building, the libraries have a limited selection of above grade books. DD is currently in 6th grade accelerated Reading with other GT 5th graders. Her teacher suggested that her students can either a) do the AR quizzes for points or b) complete a book report after finishing another book. She knows that most kids that take the accelerated LA are eager readers and don't need the points to motivate. Maybe this would be something you can suggest to the teacher, if you child is willing to "give up" the AR points to get more motivating books. I know DD was.

I also second looking into grade skip. If you begin to pursue this option now and the school is willing, doing the skip after holiday break might be a good fit. January is a lot of review anyway, so that would help her get up to speed.

Jen

Hi Mamabear -
It sounds like your daughter's teacher has bonded with her, and 'gets' her, at least a little bit. Perhaps she will be open to your suggestions - I hope anyway.

I like the idea of starting the wheels turning for skip that would start NEXT September - at the pace things go in the school system, now would be the best time to start. And it would signal to the teacher to take an even closer look at your daughter and 'get' her even more clearly. Perhaps a trial of subject acceleration would be good to try, so she would still be with her main teacher for Most of the day...

I would encourage your daughter to write a heartfelt letter to the teacher about how she feels about the reading program that you can share with the teacher, face-to-face at the meeting, so that the teacher 'gets' that you are following your child's lead, not 'one of those parents.'

If heard it said that School folks are able to hear 'self-advocacy' from children starting around the age of 12. For us, at age 10, suddently the school-folks stopped thinking he was a pain and started taking him seriously. Before that age, Parents are encouraged to be 'in charge' of Advocacy, on behalf of their children, but to bring 'evidence' of their children's interest along with them to present it, rather than owing the problem themselves.

Make sense?
Grinity

I hear what you are saying about Self Advocacy. DD is not a kid who wants to make waves. She told her Kindy teacher that she was bored (they were doing the sacred "letter people". DD was already reading well above grade level)and got into "insubordination" trouble. So we are working hard to undo all of that STILL!!

She might feel ok writing a letter. THat is something I will explore with her. I think this teacher does "get her" and we are thrilled to have that for the first time!!

As for the grade skip. If we were in a northern state, she would be in 4th grade anyway. She has one of those b-days that misses the cut off by weeks.

Who knew educating your children would be an education in itself!! Where I went to school, there was one school and that was where you "did your time".

Thank you again!!

On AR books, our school let elementary kids go the to middle school to check out books and take tests. I also believe that there is a mechanism for teachers to write their own tests, but I don't know how this is done and it would involve the teacher reading the book, too.

On self advocacy, when DS was being shy about talking to one of his teachers, I wrote a letter that basically said, "DS has some things he would like to discuss with you, but is feeling shy. Would you please set up a lunch meeting with him?" It worked beautifully.

We have had her teacher approach her on occasion, but DD clams up or says that everything is OK.

We have a good working relationship with the teacher, even have a home number that we have used once. So, I am pleased that she has a teacher that "gets her" on many levels.

I just checked her grades online and it seems that the AR deduction has disappeared! DD said that she thinks someone else had also taken tests on her account because she did not remember reading a couple of the books. That could be true since she has done so little with AR this Q.

Just an update:

We met with the teacher and DD does not have to participate in AR. Her scores on MAPS were beyond accelerated and with that information in hand, the teacher is now able to "push the pedal" as she says. DD will be accelerated across the board!!

I love this teacher!!

Oh, yay! I'm so glad they found a way around this problem.

Pats on the back to the great teacher! Happy, happy, joy, joy!

it truly is a godsend when you find a teacher that "gets your kid"! This is a new experience for us and we are taking full advantage!!

Thanks again for everyone's input. I was armed and ready to do battle...and there was no need...how cool is that?

now for babybear...still fighting for her....hoping for the same result!!