Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy I don't know where to turn - vent

I feel for you Squirt. We also go through phases of defiant, negative behavior. I've found that it's helpful for me to have a concrete "plan" when disrespectful defiant behavior rears it's ugly head. Otherwise I become emotionally reactive, which just escalates the problem.

Has your DS gone through defiant periods like this before? Take a step back and think about what has worked so that you can come up with a plan and gain control again. Only you and those close to your son can really say what will work for him. For my DS, my plan is based on the book "How to Behave so your Children Will Too" by Sal Severe. Each time we go through these phases I make DH and I review this book. DS needs very clear-cut expectations and consequences written down in a chart form. Pick something that has worked for your DS in the past and stick with it - then tweak it if it doesn't work in a couple of weeks.

oh, I feel for you - we've through some really rough times, too.

Our DS8 also really respond to touch. If he is really at his worst (and he can be baaaaad) and I just stop everything and let him sit on me while I wrap my arms around him, it's almost like he re-sets himself.

hugs to you, too.

Oh Squirt, I have had just a wee bit of experience in the joys of parenting, as you describe them. <heavy sigh>. I don't remember the age of your DS, but I can share a story with you. One day I dropped DS off for school. I was bleary-eyed and frazzled to the core by his defiant behavior. He was seven and had skipped to third grade in mid-year. Another mom, who looked equally tired and frazzled came up and started talking about her 7 yrs old son who was suddenly on a terror. We had a good laugh about how something must have been in the air, since one after another, other moms of seven yrs olds started to come over and voice the same complaints. It was if they were all going through the same phase, at the same time. <God pity the poor teachers, to have a room full of them!>

All I can say is that DS seems to go through one of these phases whenever he is passing some form of cognitive/learning/growth milestone. I read somewhere that when a child learns something big (learning to walk, learning to read, etc), then the entire brain get rewired. It is almost as if the brain has to adapt to learning something so fundamental, that it has to reorganize and link this new information to all of its previous data. I wish I remember where I read this (it was at least 5 years ago, so hopefully it is not out-of-date). But I remember going "Ahhha!" when DS was 4 or 5. It seemed like anytime he was on the cusp of learning something or even just a hugh growth spurt, he got emotionally all out of sorts, as well as needing extra sleep to process it all.

Give it a month or two, which I know is hard when you are close to tears and pulling your hair out. Do all of the things that others have suggested; the extra hugs, the exercise, the talking through it all, the setting of boundaries and discipline. All of this is important for learning how to deal with anger and frustration. But also just try to ride the storm out. This too shall pass. <hopefully>

FWIW, my DS8 has grown 2 inches in the last two weeks. He has been an absolute pickle to be around for all of this time. I keep asking him if he has been bitten by the snarling spider that I have seen hiding around. I have been feeding him mountains of food, putting him to bed early at night, and taking him out to play in the creek beds (catching crawfish, building dams, and finding fossils) for long hours on the weekend. He seems to need extra time outside in the peaceful outdoors to just be with his thoughts. (plus DH loves to build dams and I love to collect fossils, so it is an activity that the whole family loves!)

Thanks Ruby for the book suggestion. I will have to look that up. It would explain many, many things in our household! My DS get very huggy whenever he is in this state. I feel like he has been velcro-ed to me for the last two weeks solid!!

Hi Squirt,

You sound just like I felt not so long ago. We'd never had anything like that before and it was devastating. I'd start crying just telling people about it.

It seems to be behind us now, but I'm still not sure what caused it: I suspect it may have been a combination of things.

Like you I went back to smacking, which I hadn't done in ages. I went through all sorts of angst after the first time I did it, but came to the conclusion that in this instance it was necessary. He was violent to us, was damaging the house and putting himself in danger. So it became a regular response to certain kinds of behaviour, and although I felt awful doing it I really think it helped. I think that having a consistent and immediate consequence perhaps gave him more faith in me as a maintainer of limits. It would always be followed by lots of affectionate cuddling, confirmation of love, confirmation of expected behaviour, talking through of emotions. We often couldn't talk to him at all until spanking - his face would glaze over and he would scream to cover up our voices if we tried to speak.

Other things that may have helped... A lot more physical affection - even more than usual, because we're quite keen on that anyway. His teacher called us at home a couple of times to talk through what was happening - I think he appreciated the concern. I changed my parenting approach to give him more responsibility for managing himself: he has seemed to respond really well to that, and the plus side for me is much less nagging! Should have done this ages ago. I also tried to talk him through issues I think he may have been having with his school group - to confirm with him that it's fine not to play with people if you don't like the games they play or the way they behave to you. And that if you like playing with the girls then that's fine too. I arranged some play with non-school friends to take the focus away from the school group, particularly with his besty from kindy who, now I think about these things, is probably GT too - we didn't appreciate how lucky we were at the time. Walks in the forest have always helped to restore his equilbrium. And more adult conversations - eg about the relative merits of systems of government, whys and wherefores of terrorism (he likes contemplating political/moral issues) - engage him with us and I think help him in the process of sorting out his view of the world and his place in it. Sorry - that last isn't put very well at all - hope you can salvage some sense from it.

I sincerely hope your troubles don't last too long - it's an awful place to be.

Regards
BK

squirt, sending hugs your way. I'll commiserate with you. The kids were crazy when they got home from school today, and I just don't know what to do with DS5 (this is the one without the LDs). He thinks it's funny to push my buttons and to tease everyone around him. He knows when he's behaving badly and does it anyway. He called me something like poopyhead, and then laughed when I got angry (after I had yelled at him for calling someone else a similar name). Grrrrr... Usually these things happen when I'm holding the baby and trying to get a thousand other things done. Then when I tried to sneak off and get the baby to bed quietly (which took longer than I had hoped), chaos reined in the other room - I had wanted them to take baths. DS2 was supposed to be in the bathtub with DD7, but instead he was naked sitting on the wet counter playing in the sink, DS5 (one with LDs) was playing in the other sink, and DS5 (the one pushing my buttons) wanted to make his sister mad so while she was in the tub he took all the books off her bookshelf and put them on the floor of his room, running back and forth with that evil giggle (I heard it while I was trying to get the baby to sleep - I knew it was a bad sign). It was a huge mess. I could not put into words how mad I was. He did get a spanking, and he did put the books back in her room after getting yelled at, but I had to rearrange them on the shelves. Spanking doesn't seem to do much to him (and time outs are useless). One thing I happened upon, almost by necessity to drag him to a time out when I'm holding the baby, is that I pull him up by his very short hair - I started doing that when he refused to stand up and I couldn't bend down. Now he knows what's coming so at least I get a limited amount of obedience when I threaten to do that. The shame of this bad streak is that often times he's my most helpful child. I can't figure it out, but in his case it's a very typical boy thing - I remember my brothers teasing alot. I can't believe I even threatened to wash his mouth out with soap...

I recently started a chart of points for computer time (I think someone on this board suggested it?) and it worked great the first day. Unfortunately, the magic has worn off when it comes to getting points for getting ready for bed. For the second night in a row, DD7 was the only one who got points. DS5 won't even do piano for points - I will have to drag him to the piano tomorrow and stand there the whole time he practices.

The physical affection suggestion sounds good; I'll try that, though it might be tricky - for DS5 the timing will have to be right, I think (he's the type to push me away).

Speaking of which, tonight's bedtime exhausted me and I need to get some sleep...

You've all given me a lot to consider. Pud is 7 and is an only child. He gets a lot of my one-on-one attention. I would guess his love language is touch; mine isn't. He seems to be getting along fine at school. The only comment I've gotten is that he "dominates" the class by blurting out the answers before others have a chance to "figure it out". The math teacher told me he is very smart. They were doing fact families the other day (5+0=5, 5-0=5, etc) and the teacher was waiting for someone to tell her another fact. Pud told her 0-5=-5. Well, of course, they haven't learned that so she told him he was right but they weren't going to study that yet. She told me not to let him do too much math at home because then he'd have nothing to learn at school. I didn't tell her about long division!

I am thinking about what someone said about "minimums". If I could just get him to get dressed and brush his teeth and do his chore (it's been to unload the dishwasher every day but maybe I could find a different one since he is so resistant). I don't know how to get him to brush his teeth - short of holding him down and physically forcing the toothbrush in his mouth and scrubbing (which my husband can do but I don't know if I could, strengthwise). The teeth-brushing is a priority right now because he went to the dentist for a cleaning about 3 weeks ago and his teeth were awful. The hygenist and the dentist both emphasized that he HAD to do a better job brushing.

It's frustrating because we've tried rewards, consequences, taking things away, sticker charts, time-outs, everything we can think of. Nothing seems to reach him. I'm thinking of two strategies for the teeth: brush them for him every night or put him in the bathroom at 8 pm and tell him he has to stay there until he brushes. If that means he falls asleep in there, then I guess that's what would happen. I don't know. He seems to be one of those kids we read about in the DNA article that doesn't learn from consequences.

I've asked him repeatedly what upsets him, how he feels when he hits, what is going on in his head when he acts up. I get: "I don't want to do what you tell me to do".

I got this question on the spanking: "how come it's okay for you to hit me but it's not okay for me to hit you?". Umm, well, because I'm the parent?

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll have to think about it and decide what to work on specifically first. Figure out what are the most important things? And, I'll work on more touching. I know he's almost always in our bed or on the floor at the foot of our bed in the mornings. He says he just wants to be close to us.

I'll have to reread all of these posts several times and learn from your experiences.

Re: toothbrushing. I would have him practice brushing while a timer runs (and you supervise) and then brush them for him. Our dentist said that kids don't have the motor skills to do a good job until they're at least six. I still give DD9 a touchup, especially because she gets more tartar on her teeth from wearing a retainer.

If he likes to sing, he should sing through the alphabet song twice (we did it in German or French, isnce I know those languages, and it made it more entertaining), or happy birthday twice. That's always worked to keep my kids brushing long enough.

HUGs to all of you!

We too go through those phases with DS now 9. It seem like the school may not be advanced enough for him but I'm not sure you are going to find one that is. Pud is a very quick child

I dont' have anything to add except on the teeth brushing issue. Could there be a sensory issue there? I know that even today, I have to brace myself and just get through brushing my teeth. I really hate the feel of the brush. I've tried all sorts of different ones, but all of them feel like nails on a chalkboard to me. Even though there might not be a solution, if he really hates the sensation, it can help to understand why it isn't getting done. If this is a morning activity, it might be playing into everything that happens the rest of the day. Chewing those colored tablets before I brushed helped as a child. At least I knew what my goal was and when I was done. A drink of Ice water after helped too take away the sensation.

Again HUGS