Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion HELP My 15 year old son is an apathetic IB senior

I am at a loss for what to do. He was put ahead 2 years against my better judgement beause he was execeptional at everything. Last year, he made 2 D's in advanced chemistry and IB Calculus...math and science have always been his places of excellence. He says he is not smart enough and now all he wants to do is play video games..is very inventive in finding ways to get around parental controls...and wants to get out of IB. I don't think he needs it ( the IB diploma) but I think he is so apathethetic that it will be replaced by NOTHING. He said he wanted to go to college early and to get a degree in Video Game production...but I really think all he wants to do it play EVE and other games. A gifted counselor told me several years ago to let him play the games because it would allow him to be highly focussed. I am so worried about him. Should I take him out of school and send him to a horse ranch to work until his maturity catches up with his abilty...and not rush him to graduate. Let him fail ? A am so worried about him

Slinkyrose-

I think that you and your son might benefit from counseling. It sounds as if he is using the video game to escape from reality, and he may need extra help facing whatever it is that he is afraid of facing. Video game addiction is a real problem for many people, and it can be very destructive. I'm not sure, but I suspect that there may be 12 step programs for video game addicts. I really think you need to address this now, as once your son turns 18, he's a legal adult and there's not much you can do.

Life is all about balance, and there isn't a good balance in this situation. Video games are not evil, but it seems clear that your son is having a problem with self regulation that requires intervention. He might be angry about it now, but if you are proactive, he might be very grateful to you later in life.

best wishes,

Your post made me sign up. Your 15 year old sounds amazingly like my 13 almost 14 year old son. Only difference is his school has done nothing but label him. That being said - if your son is as much like mine as it seems counseling isn't an option. My son has made it very clear he wants no part of it. He's been to several different counselors and does not have any use at all for any of them. I'm not saying I agree - just stating his opinion. Has your son been diagnosed with ADD/ADHD?

My experience with 15 year olds is that they just want to control their own lives. And they are trying to deal with all the emotional and maturational stuff that goes with being teens - whether gifted or not.

The hardest part of being a parent, IMHO, is realizing that you can't control your child. You can guide, you can encourage, you can support, you can provide opportunities. But you can't control. It sounds like there is a problem -have you asked him what's going on? Did he want the skip and the IB program? Why not let him go to college and major in gaming production? Does he need the IB program to get there? I'm not real up on that end - my gifted kiddo right now is only 7. But I have a GT kid who wasn't recognized as such who is now 29 years old. He was pretty apathetic about school - but not accelerated like your son. Probably should have been, but wasn't. He's a die-hard gamer even now. Lived for RPG and video games through middle and high school. Runs a LAN group now. The gaming isn't all that bad - the question is whether it's a way to avoid reality or not.

I'd say ask your son what is going on and then sit back and really listen. Offer him a chance to go counseling if he wants to. Offer him a link to Haven: http://www.havensrefuge.lunarpages.net/
Offer support, opportunities and encouragement. Be sure he knows you love him for just being him - not because of success in IB or being smart. Be sure he knows what different choices he has and what the consequences might be. And then let him make the choices he wants.

We have a DS16, one thing we have learned, And its hard to remember is that they somtimes value themselves for their intellect rather then their work effort. As things in life become more about effort and less about itellect, they back away and say they are dumb. We found no easy fix for this. The best thing for them is to overcome things on their own. For them to gain self worth by moving past a difficult goal. Our DS16 is learning some of these lessos the hard way. We made him retake two classes during the summer and one class this year. Now that he has retaken them he is starting to see that he wasn't dumb, but that he wasn't trying. We keep drilling effort over product. I only wish we had started in 1st grade. The good thing he is maturing a lot. We don't know if it's because he is older, or that we are great parents, LOL. It's hard to be 15, your supposed to be some bright kid that never fails, and should know what you want out of life. They view most everyone else as kids with no problems, and they are very self absorbed in their own lives. Sometimes it helps if they help someone else, it helps change the focus.

There is a reason Everquest is called Evercrack!!

Does he do any reading at all - interact with peers? Or is he Hikikomori - locks himself away all day?


Here is a link about Hikikomori.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori

Edwin's post is valuable. I did not learn the value of hard work until college.

Slinkyrose,

At the beginning of my Jr. year of High School I refused to go to school. I literally left and did not return. Based on the fact that I was already ahead and test scores, I was allowed to return Senior Year and graduate on time. I did not have to make up anything I missed Junior Year. Unfortunately, there was a lot of bad stuff between: left and did not return....and allowed to return Senior Year.
The good news is, I ended up going to college, had a successful career and am now a SAHM attempting to raise two children just like me!

There is no easy answer for you. I would say make all the best decisions that you can and have hope that no matter what happens, you are doing the best you can. The good news is that because he is already advanced, when he decides to get back on track it will be much easier and faster than someone who isn't in a similar situation.

My good thoughts go out to you and your family,

Neato

LOL-- or "World of Warcrack"?

This can be a real problem ... I really feel for you and your situation. I agree a long heart-to-heart is in order, but let him do most of the talking; something like, "We want to know what we can do to help you."

My HG+ dh sounds like he was similar to your son. He left high school as a 14yo freshman ... He felt it was a ridiculous waste of his time, so refused to go anymore; he just sat around and played video games! They worked out a deal where he could work at his own pace, and graduate from the high school when he was done with the senior course work. He graduated at 15, got a job in the tech service injury (think cable guy), while taking the odd class here and there and learning all he could on the side. Now he works for the Web technology department in a large credit-card company -- 95% of his colleagues have degrees, but he learned everything he needs on his own, faster than he'd learn in a class. And he's still a gamer.

Which leads to the question: would your ds be interested in homeschooling? Maybe he could even take some correspondence game design courses. Might be worth investigating...

See, just because something is unconventional, doesn't mean it's wrong.

Ahhh SRose!
Prayers for you and your family.
Can you get him to read "The world is Flat?" It's in version 3.0. I read 2.0 as an audio book and it really gave me a lot of hope. If he won't read it, then you do, and keep leaving it in the bathroom, etc.....

I agree that 'work ethic' is the key you want him to have - I like the 'Gap year' idea - a horse ranch sounds ideal. Or a really fine boarding school, or college NOW.

Check out 'What Hight Schools don't tell you' by Elizabeth Wissner-Bross. She was good at inspiring me to 'listen and believe' in what my DS12 was saying about what he wants out of life. On page 270 she outlines a bunch of summer programs that track a kid toward a career in gaming, and -suprise - all those programs require kids to do well in school during the year to be chosen.

As far as parental controls, call the game company and see what you can do. Particularly for games that have a montly fee, if DS dosen't have cash or a credit card, there are some built in limitations. I recently had my son's World of WarCrack account set up so that I can change his password on him, and he can't get it back unless he knows my email password. -gulp- I needed to be able to threaten credibly, particularly with the new upgrade coming mid-November.

I do think that there is a lot of good in Gaming, but there is also the potential for abuse. We are still the adults, and in the end, have to excersize our best judgement. But my goal is to stoke my son's motivation and assist him in steering his life.

Prayers,
Grinity

Thank you so much for all your responses. I did set him up to see a counselor and he has and will continue to go just so he has someone to talk to. He is an introvert but is happy to be around others, is on the swim team and gets along well with his teammates. He is basically a good kid, and sensitive. He told me last night " You know, mom, I have never done my homework except the period before." I tokd him I did know it, but that the strategy stopped working for him last year in Advanced Chemistry and BC Calculus...but the problem is he just accepted the low grades and made a 4 on the AB Calc test so I am not sure what message that gives him...I am going to go to some of the websites and check out the book. One of my friends suggested sending him to a technical school. I think he only need 1.5 courses ( English and a Life skills class) to graduate with a regular diploma. . He took a 3000 level Programming class this summer at the university. Seemed to learn alot and wrote programs, but because of one program assignment ended up making a C instead of the B he had in everything else. I just don't th ink grades mean one single thing to him. I don't know if it is an option to take him out /sit out for a year. I work full time and can't imagine how you could homeschool given that...is there a way.

Again THANKS!!!!!

Thanks. No he does not have ADD. He focusses intensely on one thing...always has. Used to be building with unit blocks when he was small...he could spend the whole day building and creating scenerios. He is well behaved in class...just daydreams, so he says. I beleive it because he used to bring home his notebooks filled with characters and tokens and game schemes he had created starting in about the 3rd grade. Infinitely more pages of game dreams than ever has been written about subject matter.

You know, it sounds like he really just needs time and a chance to consider what direction he's going in. Not a bad place to be.

My son got a 31 on the ACT but graduated with a 2.6 GPA from HS. go figure. Grades never meant anything to him, either. He was sad when he didn't get accepted to the state college because of the test/GPA discrepancy (he also had flunked a foreign language class and never picked it back up, so lacked that requirement for entry). But he learned some lessons. Did some community college but he and school just aren't a match. What he wants to learn he typically just learns on his own.

He's working in retail management right now. Has lots of experience and is also working beside people with college degrees. No one cares that he doesn't have one - he's got the skills. He has dreams and is happy, moving toward them. Has a wife and a new baby. A house and a car. And he's a gamer. Not all that bad.

Could or would your son be interested in a virtual school program? Is he disciplined enough for that? You might want to join TAGMAX or other homeschooling group and see what others have to say about homeschooling high schoolers. I'd say it's totally possible to homeschool until he earns his diploma. Then he could move on to college or whatever.

You might want to have him do the Meyers-Briggs and gain some insight on his personality and how to use it to his advantage and increase awareness of his own weaknesses in terms of approaching projects and getting things done in life.

And just an aside: my son had the entire virtual world of Zelda memorized but would then fail a social studies map test. Go figure! Totally interest, not ability on that one. Don't take grades as a sign of anything other than how well he met the task demands set forth by the teacher on a particular project.

Oh, one other thing. It does sound like you son is coming up against that time in his life where he has to work to learn. It is typically quite a shocker for most GT kids. I was that way - never really studied anything until senior year in high school. Then didn't know how to study! Maybe focus on some of those skills to help him out right now.

He sounds fine. He has just opted out. I was pretty much like him from 7th grade on - I read books, programmed, played games, etc, and ignored school. I could also nail tests. He has learned to be lazy because that is what has worked for him.

I would look around for a book on how to study. If he learns how to study, he will be able to go far in his chosen field, if its gaming. It will teach him to be organized and systematic about gathering and structuring knowledge. It will also allow him to use his time more effectively so he can then spend time doing what he likes.

It takes organization to get an A in an upper level class at a U that does not have grade inflation. Once he knows how to be organized, he should be able to nail the A every time, if he wants.

One of my HS friends who was a Senior when I was a Sophomore runs one of the larger gaming firms. He was GT, a major gamer, involved in a lot of stuff, but was VERY organized - kept good notes. He would wait until the week before a test to start studying, then get a 95. He is the same way at work - focused on his interests, but also organized to know where his boundaries are so he can maintain his commitments.

One other suggestion is that you could find a gaming or programming group that meets locally so he could get some adult interaction to see if that's what he wants to do. Having an adult he respects for shared interests tell him something that he hears from you may turn a light on.

Is something like this an option?

Beach High School

Well, I am praying I will be sensitive in what I say, because I don't know if what I say will be what you want to hear.

about me...I have FOUR twice exceptional teenagers right now - 13b, 15b, 17g, 19g. All accelerated at least two years in every subject (except 13yo in writing). Only because I feel like I have put so much time and EFFORT into thinking, trying, and doing what is right for each of them, gives me a humble motivation that what I say may help you...and others on this list.

What I think your son needs is a parent not a friend. Remember that at best you have 3 years with him at home. Short time for influencing any more, but you can.

First, I think the advice to let your son game for focus reasons is BUNK. Let him learn to focus on other things he loves to do. If he has none, ask him to come up with five things and explore them to help him find a passion or two. You will need to take the initiative and help him find the right mentor/activity/classes. And taking away the gaming device takes care of the "inventive" means of electronic controls.

Second, don't send him away for a year to a horse ranch. He is lost and needs parents right now more than ever. (We think when they are walking and potty-trained things just get easier and they no longer need us as much when in reality they need us more as teens, since they are now dealing with decisions/consequences that will influence their lives).

Third, don't worry about grades as much as whether he is learning or not. If high school is a waste of time academically, college courses are a good choice, but also have him do service through high school/college clubs, maybe even start one. Helping others often shows us the difference we can make in others lives. Teenagers need to know they matter, and service opportunities are a great way to remind them that they do! (Maybe he could start a club that collects older game systems and games, movies too, for donation to a local hospital. Bed bound teens would love this!)

Fourth, if he chooses a short-cut school, make sure he uses an accredited school and that he really is ready for college courses in all subjects. If he's not, keep him at the high school with the ones he lags in, or college will not be a successful experience for him.

One final note...this one is for everyone on the list...
There IS a problem with this generation of teens. I listened to an expert speak at a seminar and talked to my kids about it and they added to this.

1) Teens today are not trustworthy of others as much as in the past. This has to do with the cynical nature of society. They develop the attitude that "I better watch out for myself, since no one will." As parents, we need to tell them that we are not going to "freak" when they make mistakes or wrong choices...that if they want to stand against the crowd (including teachers/principals) for something they believe in, we will hands down support their point of view and stand beside them.
2) Teens today feel entitled. Again, some of this is due to society and some is due to the lack of poverty in U.S. the past few generations. They have things handed to them so easily. It is good for teens to not have every game, Ipod, cell phone type of contraption everyone else does, especially if they didn't work for it. The problem with entitlement is that when you feel entitled you are not motivated to do anything since "you deserve it."
Many moms can relate to this problem when we feel we deserve to lie around since we are truly overwhelmed. If done too long, we become depressed and forget what used to motivate us, what our passions used to be, and just figure lying around is the best way to spend our time.
3) Teens lack opportunities to find out just how smart and special they are. This is where we come in. We have to make opportunities available to them, so they can "discover" that they matter and can make a difference in the world.

My words aren't just hype, but from my heart, since I live with these guys daily (except 19yo at college). I could go on...but I hope these words help, even if it's only in a small way.

Please feel free to email me privately.

Jayne, that was beautifully expressed. I'm so glad there are moms like you that are aware of what the kids today face and parent accordingly.


There is a good chance you are right. That was my exact thinking in high school and I didn't come to that conclusion over night. It was an attitude that culminated over many years.
Perhaps he didn't care about grades when he was getting good grades. Perhaps he was just going along and the grades pretty much followed him doing the minimum effort required.
Perhaps he says he doesn't care about grades because he has never had to "work" for good grades and at this point, he may not know how to get started.
Perhaps he is really saying, I don't know how to get good grades now=I can't get them=So I don't care.

Just some thoughts............. ((shrug))

Everyone has great suggestions. I like Jayne's especially. I thought I was in this boat last year when DS was a freshman, but he seems to have pulled it together.

I do think kids want limits set for them. They'll keep pushing, but they want the limits--I guess it reinforces that someone cares. I keep telling my kids that sleepovers have nothing to do with sleep, waste the next day and all the fun can be had during the day. I'm hoping that when they go away to college, they might think about that and not stay up all night.

My kids are younger but enjoy gaming and I try to limit it. Still, it's more than I'd like. One DS like My SPace and you tube alot. So much time spent on those. For the high school kid, DH & I were out of our minds last year--it would be SO simple to get As. Just do the work...a lot of it busy work, but we all have "chores" we just have to do (scrub floors, laundry..) We kept saying that he could have lots of freedoms if he just did his work. I'm crossing my fingers, but he's fine so far this year. One thing is that he's on the soccer team and practices 3 hrs every day. It doesn't leave a lot of other time so he's had to become pretty disciplined about homework. Maybe your son needs to have another activity that will take a big chunk of time so he can focus. Like Jayne said, we become depressed when we lie around.

Finally, I am convinced that the talent search (or even pre-college) summer institutes are important motivators. They're surrounded by other very bright students for 3wks (without gaming) who are driven--it gets them excited about doing well.

I do not have the answer. Every kid is so different.
Wanted to put my two cents about computers/electronics in general. Both of my kids own laptops, so it is very, very easy for them to be online constantly. The rule we have is no laptops in the bedroom Sunday night till Friday afternoon (when done with anything that needs to be done). They are welcome to use them, but is has to be on the main level of the house (they usually leave them either in living or dining room, but the house is very open so you can't really hide on the main level).
It has really done wonders as far as limiting their online time. They are both quite busy with after school things anyway, but the fact that you have to be online while mom is nearby is somehow bugging them.
The same goes for cell phones - they leave them downstairs upon return from school. My daughter used to be on the phone with friends forever, until we decided that while at home she is supposed to use the landline (still have one). The amount of calls has diminished by good 80%.

I am not an expert - my oldest is 8. However, I wanted to suggest something that is working quite well for us. We give each child 30 minutes of screen time/day (ie TV, gaming, internet, etc). If they want more than that, they can "earn" more. For example, my DD8 was having behavior issues at school, so we worked with the school to setup an incentive system where she earns points for getting work done at school. Then, we convert the points to minutes of screen time. While other incentive programs have not worked at all for DD8, this is having moderate success (she really loves screen time!). When she doesn't earn any extra screen time, we use empathy "what a bummer... you can try again next time". When she 'sneaks' extra screen time, all screen time is suspended until she 'earns' it back. She can earn it back usually in a week or so by going above and beyond, ie helping us around the house more, doing a great job at school, getting extra exercise, etc.

I also recommend finding a mentor for him in the gaming industry.

For your general issues, I highly recommend using "Love and Logic" ( Love and Logic ). The premise behind it is that we need to let kids make mistakes while they're young, before the stakes are high. Their techniques help you resist the urge to swoop in and rescue them or lecture them, etc. You set limits, consistently enforce the limits in an empathetic way, and watch them learn to make good choices. The company has specific classes and books for parenting teenagers.

Great advice Ania,

Neither of my girls are at that age, but both have computers in their room. DD8 has a cell phone to use when she is out on her own at events, she doesn't use it to call friends.

I'm going to keep your advice in mind for when they get a little older, thanks for sharing.

Jayne, how's it going? Any better? Do you feel any better?