Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Ivy League Admissions.

Limitations on free inquiry may pertain to the Ivies as well to more pedestrian post-secondary educational options. It may be increasingly important for parents and students to be aware of the current climate on a campus prior to applying for admissions. Three related points:

1.Here is an executive order (13864 from March 21, 2019) which allows that any federal funds to an institution may be curtailed if the institution does not promote free inquiry. 2. Here is a reminder that lavish facilities tend to attract weaker students. Although the non-academic feature five years ago was lazy rivers, today's non-academic feature may be something else, more akin to political activism/agitation/dissent which limits free inquiry.

3. Here is a paper from Stanford, written prior to socialism being a major talking point in the US. It discusses that historically, dissent and agitation may have been encouraged for the purpose of bringing down the current system, then once the new system was in place, dissent was immediately banned.

What is the optimal college atmosphere? Total intellectual focus? Are clubs, sports, community an issue?

Operationally, the question becomes how do you manage an institution, dealing with funding, staffing, curriculum, housing, social institutions?

Peer group? What kind of peer group? Do you care if it is ethnically balanced? What does ethnically balanced mean to you?

The Lampoon has produced some of the top comedy writers, like Colin Jost who was president of the Lampoon at Harvard. But like Michael Che says, he didn't go to college and has the same job, so does it matter if Harvard has the Lampoon? Has football, that is quite crappy for college football. Should it go away so more Asian kids can be admitted, since they, as a group, have higher scores. DD's HS, which has 2 stages of testing to get in, is 80% chinese. Chinese, there are other asians. In Canada. That is who gets in. And a large group apply to the US for school and they get in to all the top schools. Now Chinese ethnically, as some of the parents are even Canadian born. But that was the point of the lawsuit. What do you want the college to be like? In all respects.

Some famous parents have been implicated in the college admissions fraud masterminded by Rick Singer. A survey by YouGov from March 2019 finds that large fractions of parents would cheat to get their children in.

25% of parents say they would pay college officials to get their children into a good school
"Over one-third (34%) say they would pay a college prep organization to take a test on their child’s behalf."

Not sure that they would now with a spotlight shining super bright.

Also, I was thinking that Styvescant, which generally considered top high school in the US, Harvard takes about 25-30 students every year, has testing, and of the 10,000 students in NYC that take it, the top 700 get in and their ethnic make up is similar to DD's school. And deBlasio wants to do away with the specialized high schools after like almost 100 years. The scores from ethnically asian students tend to be higher. I don't think their parents are hiring someone to take the test. You have to look like you are in 8th grade.

I think it is talent, luck and strategy. There are kids that do highly unusual things. Like that homeschooled kid that sailed around the world at 16. He got into Harvard. And there are kids that have double legacy that go to the right schools, have great scores and grades and have a decent resume of school president, state champion in debate. And there are kids that just stand out with their essay, as they go through 50,000 applications of top scores and grades. Why this one with 10 APs with all 5s and perfect SAT and not the next one? I know someone who got into Stanford without a top SAT score, good but not top tier. The mother was was a little shocked. it was EA. She actually pressed the button at the last minute. at the welcome meeting, the admission person came up to her and said that her school was known for producing the kind of kids they look for at Stanford. What had stood out to me when the mother was telling me, is that the girl had done this indigenous research over several summers since 8th grade with some professor. That kind of thing they look at. What makes you different than just perfect scores, how do you contribute to the community they want that has academic excellence but also is vibrant, interesting, exposes you to stuff you may never have explored. Like comedy writing at the Lampoon or hasty pudding club.

Links in this old post describe how test fraud has been accomplished, in some instances.

I was referring to the test for specialized high schools in NYC not SAT for colleges. Sorry if that was not clear. It was talking about the lawsuit. If it was just abouut scores, what does the school look like demographically, what does it do for affirmative admissions? What does it do to the clubs? Hence, I cited 2 high schools that were just about scores and what they look like demographically.

I was curious how MIT works.
Ethnically, MIT is 36& Asian, 6.2 AA, 14% Hispanic, 33% white and rest international.

But I wondered if they really do recruit for athletes, although they state they do not send out likely letters. But...

MIT First requires that each and every student can attend MIT, survive freshman year, do well in a major and be able to graduate in a timely fashion. Each and every one, no matter what your extracurricular activities are.

MIT has stated that Over 50% of the applicants can do that………. Yet, MIT now only admits 7.5% of the overall applicant pool.

So how does MIT Pick that One out of Seven that could do the work, and obviously have an excellent high school academic record?

They take a Holistic view of your application and look Long and Hard at you as a complete person, and therefore not only how you would fit with the undergraduate community but also what you would contribute to that community outside of the classroom.

In one case that I am aware of, when MIT’s admission rate was 8%, 25% of the athletes that were “flagged” by a head coach were admitted. NOTE: Those coaches know MIT and will Not flag an applicant that they believe can Not make the academic “requirements”. Of those 25% who were admitted, some came to MIT and were very good students and superb team players.

Hence the 2019 college admissions scandal... including faux sports credentials:
old thread from the day the news first broke.

I'm still a fan of the school of thought that "Where you go is not who you'll be," Frank Bruni (2016).