Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy requesting help with math advocacy

Oh!! What a wonderful way of putting that, Val!! Three cheers!!

I totally agree with Kriston when she says that those problems are very relative to age. It is much easier to work with younger child who is resisting something (simply doing it with them will be a remedy) then with a teenager.

As for Math Circles - there are different ones. Some are free, some you pay for, some are competition prep some are extended problems. The ones I encountered in Europe were focusing on extended math concepts. If you look back in my posts, we have actually managed to organize one at the college in our town.
I think that the math circle in Boston area is different, but the ones that I am familiar with are geared towards high school and advanced middle school kids. Post intermediate Algebra and Geometry.

I vote for putting it into spray bottles. That way we can spread it quickly over a large area. NB Make sure it smells good; we can tell them we're de-odorizing.



Math Kangaroo is good for deep-and-wide-type thought problems. It's not too expensive, and the kids get fun stuff: a t-shirt, a pencil holder with pencils, an eraser etc.

Val

Not with my kid!

Last year, we would spend a full hour together on dumb homework that he could have done with ease in 5 minutes 3+ years earlier. I was working with him. I said, "Just get it done and then you can play!" I said, "You have to show the teacher that you already know it." I tried all those things. None of it worked. He was miserable and acting out at home and at school. He had no respect for his teacher, and he was losing respect for me. He hated math.

What is he getting out of that? Nothing good!

We moved on to geometry, and he could do 10 times the number of problems in half the time! His joy in math returned. His respectful attitude returned. He did the problems willingly--eagerly!--because they were hard for him. He asks for hard now! And that's what I want!

He says he wants to stop cleaning his room, and I say, "No. Life is not all fun and games. You made the mess, you clean it up." He does. Drudgery galore!

I really do hear what you're saying, Ania, but I just don't see it working with my child. I've been there. I tried it. It was the exact wrong thing for him! And I don't think my child is in the minority of HG+ kids. I just hear stories like mine far too often.

I think computation skills are important, but I also think that with a spiral curriculum, the opportunities to fill in the gaps are easy to come by.

If you do drill with a kid and it isn't killing the love of math or the respect for the teacher, then I'm all for it. But I think these two problems are far more likely in the GT population and far more harmful than the danger of not learning the times tables (or whatever) RIGHT THIS SECOND. The kid will memorize the multiplication tables eventually. But if he comes to hate math and think all teachers are idiots, then multiplication is the least of your worries!

Yes, the one in Boston takes children as young as 4. From what I hear it is devoted to teaching the kids to explore a problem together in the spirit of playing with ideas. I suspect it takes a very good teacher/moderator to make this work well, but when successful I'm pretty sure it is my ideal for the best kind of learning in any subject.

BB

I did not mean to say that kids will do boring things when we sit down with them Of course you have to keep them interested and follow their lead. But it is easier - at least it was for me - to make my kids "do something" when they were younger because all it really took in majority of cases was a gentle persuasion from me and me actually seating down with them.
My kids never bolted out at "boring" calculations, but when the time came to "show work" there were some issues. To this day I tell my son to do more on paper - head is great for ideas but not for calculations. It is after all calculations that we make most mistates in when it comes to more complex problems.
When DD is working on Aleks she is not allowed to use the calulator. She can only use it on tests to double check her answers. As a result her calculations are generally more correct tha her mathy brother's, who jumps from idea to idea (he is much better now, he has learned that one can loose a lot by making a mistake in addition )

But of course you have to make it interesting, and you do it.

Hello all,

I took some wise advice and a step back.......

Thanks for all the well wishes and concerns. I'd hit a little roadblock and became extremely frustrated. DD WILL be leaving for the math hour.....things continue to progress slowly.......onward we march.

Lots of great discussion, ideas and excellent points. One comment particularly jumped out at me:


Working hard on drudgery vs. challenging material. Hmmmmmmm. Working hard on challenging material: promotes good work ethic, sticktuitiveness, and definately good self esteem, a feeling of self efficacy.
Working hard on drudgery: For our highly able children, if this happens consistently, over time it will condition them to procrastinate and spin their wheels. Excessive time spent on this conditions the child to be unproductive. It can become a part of who they are and how they manage their day as adults.

I would recommend that every parent with a HG,EG, PG very carefully consider this.

This knowlege has a lot to do with what I do and will continue to do.

Peace,
Neato

You go, girl! I hope everyone involved (ahem) gets on board with you and it all works out to be an ideal situation for DD8.

Well said, Neato. Very good point.

Why thank you, thank you very much.....

While I have your attention, let me make my next point:

Excessive time spent on drudgery.

No teacher worth their salt would sentence any child to excessive drudgery, so why do so many of us report that it is happening to our children?

Maybe you could tell me, but here is what I've observed.

For most HG and up children, grade level material for their age is excessive drudgery. I think this is the hardest thing for the school to understand and they believe that they are providing a great challenge, I do think they attempt to do so through the services they provide.

But with HG and up child, they ALMOST ALWAYS UNDERESTIMATE THE SPEED AND EFFICIENCY WITH WHICH THESE CHILDREN LEARN. It seems that one of two things seems to happen. The child smiles sweetly and tolerates it(See, he/she is perfectly happy in school, what are you talking about.)
The child acts out because of boredom and frustration(I'm sorry, but we can't even address gifted services because this behavior is just too disruptive, you need to do something about your child.)

That is what they see. They accomodate accordingly. Without intervention, the child is at risk for developing a variety of non-productive habits that have an obvious effect on their future potential success.

Clearly, this in not the situation for all HG and up children in all public/private schools. However, it seems to be pervasive enough of an issue that is should be seriously considered by all the adults that are involved in helping these children.

Now, I am seriously in danger of harming a horse. I defer to your discussion................