Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Confused, math

I am confused about my sons interest/ability in math and worried that this year - 3rd grade, with multiplication tables will be very hard on him.
Last year he had these timed math fact sheets which he just could not work through in time, even though I and the teacher could plainly see he was doing just fine with is other math.
he took the k-bit test last year as well, scoring 87th percentile in math so I figured, ok, maybe he is just average / bright in this area - the assessor did comment that he was just really taking his time with stuff.
I have expressed on this board in the past that I still feel there is something pretty mathy about the guy - I am just not sure how to develop/encourage it.
I started in on studying the multiplication tables with him early in august to give im a leg up if they go all timed-math-sheet on him again. To say the least, his enthusiasm levels were pretty LOW. I tried a different tack with the 6s the other night - decided to show him a pattern between 5s and 6s - take a 6 problem (6x3), and convert it to 5: 5x3 and then add 3. he seemed to be able to at least lift is head off the desk for this part but he still didnt want to write anything out. I asked him to work throuh the last several problems verbally so we could call it done - he worked throuh 5x6+6, and so on verbally though 12 for me. This seems like an ok level to be at, definitely, but I just feel like his math enthusiasm is going down, and Im afraid the multiplication tables might kill it altogether.
he says stuff like, I already know how to multiply, but its hard for me to see this since he as little interest in demonstrating it. he said the only class where he feels like they show him stuff he already knows is math class, but he says he doesnt mind it.
So anyway, I am just confused, maybe pushing him a bit in an area he just doesnt care about...but concerned about getting him to come out of his shell on some of this stuff. Any suggestions greatly appreciated...

Does he like computer games? DS7 (2nd grade) has come a long way on multiplication tables this summer playing Timez Attack

http://www.bigbrainz.com/index.php

Big Brainz actually should put DS on the payroll, because I think he's about discovered every bug and glitch possible on this game while playing it.

I totally know what you mean about the writing and dragging the feet on this stuff. DS is the same. I am starting to rethink math for him now that we will be homeschooling. He absolutely HATES the writing involved in more involved math problems. He actually did well in 1st grade on timed adding tests, so maybe he will come around on that. It is nice being fast, but I never was and I have a degree in math. Not to mention, I hated arithmetic in elementary school. So I don't have much wisdom, but I can sympathize!

DS loved Timez Attack, too. B/c he couldn't type fast enough, he'd yell out the answers and I'd type them in.

My DS's 3rd grade teacher recommended Times Attack last year when the kids were struggling to solve 100 multiplication problems in 7 minutes. DS played it one or two times and then never went back to it. It just did not have the amount of variation that he needed. Now as a qualifier to the above remark...We just downloaded the free trial from the web site. DS probably only saw a small fraction of the game. But that fraction did not hold his interest. <shrug>

The only way that I got DS through the timed math tests was to get him to divide the total number of problems into the amount of time alloted in seconds. Suddenly he saw that he had to do a problem every 4.2 seconds in order to finish all the problems in time. He came running home the next day saying that he had jumped from his previous record of 50% completion on his division test (while staring out the window, kicking the chair, drawing space battleships in the margins!) all the way up to 100% with time to spare. He was so, so, happy to have finally done it. He just didn't know how little time he had for each problem.

That may be different for other kids. It was a motivation issue (or a focusing issue) and not a learning issue. DS probably would have enjoyed the game more if he was still in the learning stage for multiplication. It didn't really help the motivation or focusing issue.

Since my son is a hugh star wars fan, he love the following game from the library more than Times Attack:
Star Wars� Math: Jabba's Game Galaxy�
http://www.lucaslearning.com/products/swmath.htm

We've also tried almost all of the other games here: Yoda's challenge, Gungan Frontier (science-habitats and food webs), DroidWorks (pure fun and not too educational), and Pit Droids (fun, maybe slightly educational from a problems solving point of view). But as an 8 year old, he has sadly outgrown most of these games.

Some GT mathy kids are not interested in the rote memorization required of multiplication tables. They understand the concept but hate the memorization. Developing Math Talent by Susan Assouline points out this contradiction in terms observed in GT kids. They point out in the book that sometimes you just need to move on and let the child see the relevancy of learning multiplication tables for quicker solving of other problems. I think there are others who are or have been on this board who saw their child become independently motivated to learn the times tables when they saw the relevancy and were slowed down on harder problems.

Making it fun is certainly helpful. MrWiggly likes the MathBlasters computer game for math facts. We also play a game of math questions - he just likes it when I give him a problem and he has to solve it in his head. Sometimes it takes him awhile but he's working on it and eventually gets it. That has helped his memorization a lot. He HATES the timed tests and homework, doesn't always do well with them and cannot stand to do rote memorization. But we just had him tested and were told that he is profoundly gifted in math. So don't necessarily take what you are seeing as a sign that he is not gifted in math. Perhaps he's just slower at processing it.

Debbie - that is a great point. I don't think I actually learned my tables by heart until higher level math. I memorized them for a short time to get through 3rd or 4th grade and immediately forgot them! I actually let DS7 use a multiplication table for more complex problems if he wants.

Very good point, Debbie. Or sometimes they have to see the big picture on why the memorization is useful before they will decide to comply.

I had forgotten about MathBlasters. That was one of my DS's favorite games for a while. And I am currently reading through Developing Math Talent as well. Small world, huh?

<smacking self on the forehead>

Now why didn't I think of this!? I suspect this would really help DS7, who is a precise kid. Wow! Thanks, ebeth!

Times Attack didn't really float DS7's boat either (though I may come back to it and try again after more work on the times tables) because there was too much pressure for a not-fast kid. But if he feels more in control of his own time, I think that might really help him not to freak out about how fast he has to go. As it stands, he can be calm or he can be fast, but he hasn't figured out how to be both at the same time, and the stress of being fast really causes him a lot of anxiety. I suspect this tip might help with that.

Yay!

Waaaa-hooo! I finally helped someone here!!

<I'm doing my little celebration dance!!>

Now I only owe you about 700 more of those, huh Kriston?

I guess I'm really saying 'thanks" for all the help that you have given me!! Glad to finally return the favor.

Wow. Thanks for this recommendation. DS loves this...

JB