Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Help with middle schooler lying about assignments

Second the wine glass, in the evening, preferably with your spouse I front of a good TV drama. Escapism.

If this were my kid, which I expect it may be in a few years time because they are so very alike, I'd say his anxiety is through the roof. I'd see a psychiatrist to try and get a diagnosis that will get her out from getting 0s for not handing in stuff - generalized anxiety disorder, ADHD, anything. And then I'd consider medication. Not Ritalin, but rather Prozac or Zoloft. I'd think she is old enough to need it.

Zoloft is what we went with, and the change has been dramatic. Of course, there were the assignments he legitimately forgot, was too nervous to turn in, the one he lied about having turned in, and now the worksheet he didn't realize had to be turned in even though he complete 90% of it. The big difference is that now we can deal with it together.

I mentioned we tried SOAR system over the weekend. Best thing ever for the past three years in keeping him organized! As simple as it sounds, putting everything in one binder, it worked the magic. NO single assignments missed this week, which is hard to believe. DS is very proud of this.

I would suggest to give it a try, no need to buy the book, which is nice but pricy. All you need is a 1-1.5 inch binder with plastic pockets for each of the classes. Make sure no loose paper in the book bag, everything going into the binder. DS told me he used to spend long time searching in every binder looking for the math paper while the teacher has already gone to a different topic. He had to give up which resulted in a missing homework. With Soar binder, his work for every class is right there and he does not need to spend any time looking!

I just regret that we didn't think of this earlier.

Agree with several PPs:
--I'd see EF difficulties and very serious anxiety/perfectionism as likely root causes
--I might consider medicating for the anxiety (if she will agree to that); it's clearly causing real suffering. I would use a psychiatrist or developmental pediatrician to select a medication rather than a primary care doc.

When our DS lied about assignments, it was because the fear of being in trouble was worse than the fear of the zero. We needed to ramp the anxiety way down, then deal with the EF failures. (The EF failures were a combination of perfectionism and true disorganization. Some support at school and some maturity and some ADHD meds helped greatly.)

She worked with the counselor on anxiety issues (unrelated to any of this) and seemed to make significant progress. That was actually the one area where we saw results. According to the counselor, anxiety was not nearly severe enough to call for meds. However, school was much more under control last year.

There appear to be some social issues operating here. DD is on the borderlines between a more popular crowd and a nerdier crowd. I know where I want her, but she doesn't know, of course.

I find it hard to understand WHY DD is doing this and if it is condition-related or a more intentional choice. She seems unable to understand this herself. She offers some reasons from each column.

I am now going through her binders with her every weekend. They look disorganized, but not terrible. There are usually 3 or 4 loose papers in the bottom of her pack, but not essential ones. I will find things misfiled (wrong binder) or somewhat misfiled (wrong section of binder), but LOSING work doesn't seem to be her issue. Her issue is failing to turn in. The work IS typically completed UNLESS it was assigned in a method that is not typical. If a teacher specifically asks for work, it will always be turned in. If she needs to remember it on her own, good luck with that. If there is a routine (HW every night, HW every Wed and Fri), that will work. If random and not often, uh oh. If HW is usually online but oh, today it was a worksheet? She is going to forget that because she will only check online. That's the way it is. And in one class, I swear the teacher has ADHD and it is SO VERY hard for her to manage due to the scattershot way things work. In contrast, another teacher dictates exactly how the binder should be organized in an intuitive way, tells them where everything should be filed, assigns HW the same day of the week always, etc. She has over a 100% in that class (that teacher has been teaching 20+years).

My kids also have a problem with not turning homework in. A good friend is mystified and says to them, "But surely, DOING it is the hard part --- not, you know, handing it in when they ask for it." It has to be a developmental thing.

I'm pretty sure that the lead teacher at their junior high told me that most of the kids there struggle with this problem. The school's philosophy is to scaffold as much as possible at that age, and to ramp down as they go through high school.



I think this is the way it should be. It's not reasonable to expect 11- and 12-year-old kids to have a high level of executive function, and IMO, the school should be helping to develop it by ensuring that stuff is filed properly and that homework assignments get written down (e.g. "Okay, I wrote the assignment on the board, get your organizer out and copy it in."). In this way, behavior can start to drive attitude.

My kids also lie about the assignments because "it's easier to lie than get in trouble/do the homework." So there is that. They've started to learn that they're going to get into trouble for lying and (hopefully) are starting to consider the possibility that it actually is easier to just do the work. That said, their school doesn't hand out a lot of busy work. I can understand reluctance to waste time on busy work. I can also understand that it kind of has to be done anyway. Busy work (don't know if your daughter gets it) isn't an easy situation.

I don't feel that the school is assigning a lot of unnecessary work, thankfully. It's much better than her elementary school. And I also know that other kids and families struggle with this issue. What I don't know is if they struggle to the same extent (maybe?) and/or how much of her problem is intentional rebellion/not caring/ a choice vs failing to handle it for other reasons not of her choice. She also seems significantly spacier this year than last. Hormones? She is a late bloomer physically--that is just happening now.

Well, there's certainly nothing that prevents the behavior from being a 50/50 split between condition-related and intentional choice.

I'm really struggling this week with similar questions. Although with DS 12 our confrontation point isn't lying about the work, I am dealing with flat out refusal to do it, and an unbelievable amount of negative attitude and refusal to take responsibility for figuring out how to deal with the problem.

For what it's worth, on pretty much every resource I've ever looked at about ADHD or executive function, doing the work but not handing it in tops the list. Coupled with lying about it to cover up the failure. These are pure, archetypical behaviours of people with executive function deficits.

But - - - but - - - there's so much behaviour that feels so much like choosing, like it's intentional. What do you DO with that? I too find this really, really hard. When the kid says "I can't do this" and yells and freaks out and cries at every possible question about what, exactly, is making it so hard; at every offer to brainstorm ideas; at every suggestion of a possible different approach. Who every time I try to speak is yelling "No! I am NOT being negative and I'm NOT shouting down every suggestion you make without listening to it, I have NOT made up my mind that this is impossible and I am NOT refusing to consider alternate approaches". Oddly, when I asked if he saw the irony, it didn't help. :P

This 3-piece assignment was given ages ago, and there has been some class time to do it. I have been lightly checking in, but on his teacher's clear request, not getting directly involved. A week ago, however, I started asking some pointed questions. It's pretty clear his plan was going to involve simply not doing it, and hope, somehow, that it would magically go away.

His plan did not involve in any way discussing the work with the teacher, despite our many, many discussions that he can always get help, even discuss the possibility of modifying tasks or deadlines if need be, AS LONG AS HE ASKS WELL BEFORE THE DUE DATE. But you can't, can't, CAN'T wait until something should have already been handed in, and THEN say "I'm having a problem".

But somehow this is my fault because he didn't go to the teacher anytime in the last several weeks because he wasn't having a problem until I tried to make him finish the work this weekend. And the assignment he didn't ever even start because it was impossible (as opposed to the others which were just hard)? It was too impossible to ever start in all the time he had, but somehow he didn't know until this weekend that he *couldn't* do it, even though he didn't try to start it at any point in the last month because it was too hard, so he never discussed it with the teacher because it wasn't a problem until I got involved and somehow this is all my fault.

(Did I mention that we had a four-day weekend up here in the Great White North, so all this is going on at my mother-in-law's? Oh so much fun).

I am trying to come at this from a nice , calm, OK, you need to do this. How do you think you can get there? What's another way? How can I help you?

I know that if he sees this work as "impossible", that's not choice. That's his deficits speaking (I suspect a big dose of expressive language in with the ADHD). And I know kids with ADHD avoid and lie. That, too, is not "choice" in the way we usually think of it. But taking responsibility for his work, his actions? Recognizing what's hard for him and owning it, so that I and others can help him find other ways? Where in all this mess does choice come in? How do we hold him accountable for his work and the unacceptable behaviours, while recognizing the disabilities that are driving the behaviour? I am trying to separate the two and help him understand the difference. He's not accountable for his LDs, but he is accountable for how he chooses to deal with them. I'm failing miserably, and we're both pretty miserable.

But his life strategy for *everything* emotionally or cognitively difficult is avoidance. This is a deep, fundamental piece of him I am struggling with.

Yeah, no suggestions today. Just a whole lot of empathy and lots more questions.