Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Help with middle schooler lying about assignments

It looks like people are addressing the executive function piece, but not the lying. As it appears that it's a coping strategy of not being able to handle the organizational demands, of course addressing the root of the problem makes sense.

We've addressed these twin issues of weak executive function and lying about it afterwards by giving our kids a formula for messing up with the logic that lying (or neglecting to mention) is not helping the situation long term, but instead a function of the short-term anxiety and sense of failure. So in our house, we've structured how to make a mistake. We've found that it helps address the anxiety around the problem so that they can actually learn. It's the 4 F's. Mess up, Fess up, Fix it, and Forget it/Move on.

Mess up, e.g. forget to hand in homework
Fess up (and apologize): admit to your mistake and be able to name it. "Mrs Teacher, I'm sorry I forgot to hand in my homework. I hope you will accept it now."
Fix it: "I'm going to try carrying a homework folder with me to every class from here on," or, "Can you help me remember to get the homework out of my folder until it's a habit?"
Forget it or move on. It's in the past. You've got your fixes in place now, no need to dwell on it.

We definitely have scaffolded our DD as 6th grade was the last grade in which late assignments were accepted without incurring large penalties.

Also, knowing that I had EF issues as a schoolboy (and to some extent still do) I have watched this like a hawk because, like every parent, you don't want to see your offspring stepping into the same messes that you did.

We have bought one of those plastic coated (erasable) monthly planner/calendars from an office supply store and a set of coloured erasable markers - one colour per subject. Every time DD returns from school she writes the assignments given that day into the rectangle assigned for the due date.

This serves three purposes a) she keeps track b) we can keep track of her being on track c) writing it down as soon as she comes home, i. e. before she has started the actual work is generally the lowest anxiety (about it) time.

Every month, usually during the 3rd/4th week, we start to erase the earlier weeks to allow the newer assignments to be entered perpetually.

So far, this has worked very well; she keeps track, we can (and sometimes have to) keep her on track and she gets to see how long (in advance) she actually has to get things done. The last night before something major is due panics are way less frequent now :-)

The longer term goal is for DD to acquire a system that she can use independently.

Is it perfect? No. But it has helped a lot!

YMMV

No advice, but you are not alone. Following this thread. YS DD11 is definitely "smart, but scattered," with no ADHD diagnosis, but with what would appear to be some EF challenges. It is difficult to sort out what is lack of engagement, boredom, actual EF challenges, laziness, or something else.

When we try to ask her about assignments that are missing, we usually do not get a straight answer. It is VERY frustrating.

Right now, we check in with her often and remind her of what may be due. She hates this, as she is VERY independent. BUT, she has not yet demonstrated the ability to stay on top of it all on her own. So we will probably continue to encounter eye rolls for the foreseeable future...

At this age, some may say, "one more eye roll and you are on your own for a week!"
And then stick to your word.

Sink-or-swim.

A child can either learn to appreciate support, and/or learn the consequences of any lapse in organizational skills and turning in work on time.

Parents deserve respect.

Thanks to everyone who posted about this. Rest assured I have read your answers. The issue is so fraught and emotional right now that I don't know if I can even post about it. I feel like we are destroying our relationship with DD over this and I am about ready to let her tank whatever because I can't handle the tenor of our household and the damage it is doing to my sanity, my other child, and even my dog. She would be an incredible prosecuting attorney (I know you know the type), and the onslaught of her verbal rage amd mendacity on this issue is overwhelming to me. Of course, I don't think it would be particularly good parenting to let her twist in the wind, because 1) she must apply to high schools, as previously stated, and with her grades headed as they are, she would lose her shot at the prestigious one; 2) her EF skills are poor enough that I feel it is a cop-out. But since I literally cannot speak to her about this issue without her losing her mind with scorn and fury, even if I do so entirely neutrally, and since no loss of privilege appears to matter (she has lost them all at this point), I am at my wits' end. We have already been to counseling and were discharged due to her "progress." She had the counselor snowed. I feel concerned at times that she is gaslighting many adults in her life. She can seem incredibly mature and responsible and turn on a dime.

When we put my daughter into 1-1 therapy, she turned on the charm, was very articulate, and had the counselor snowed as well. We ended up looking crazy when we described the various drama that she instigated at home.

On one hand, home is the soft place for these kids to land.

On the other hand, their de-compressing and acting out can become manipulative and abusive.

It sounds like some of this behavior is beginning to cross the line.

I have one word of advice to consider: nanny-cam

Homework issue first: IMO the problem with asynchronous development in executive function is that many of the "natural consequences" approaches have a disproportionate impact. DC won't complete SAT registration? If one lets them suffer the "natural consequences" DC may miss all the financial aid and application deadlines and not be able to go to college. Even if one explains this to DC, DC may just not be fully able to realize the true impact of their actions. Additionally, DC may be getting bad advice from others or observing students with different life goals and not believe that the dire consequences you describe will actually occur. Ugh. It has been my experience that this actually got worse with age as the stakes got higher and the resistance to parental advice became greater. What worked for us? We found that having DC develop a plan for which college (substitute high school in OP's case) and look up herself what the requirements for entrance to each school were made clear what classes, grades, and tests DC needed. This helped a lot to keep DC at least on the main road to DC's goal. Other parent's we know used a tutor and if their DC did not want to have a tutor made it grade dependent; i.e. if you don't want to spend 2 hours a week with a biology tutor your grade must be X and your assignments must have less than Y number missing. Some parents use a homework coach (see an article on these here: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/08/nyregion/08homework.html?_r=0 )

Finding a way to both enforce parental rules and de-escalate situations is tough. Really tough.

Lying second: I'd urge you to make really, really sure that there is not anything "weird" going on with your DD. I found long car rides out of the city best for these kinds of conversations. Preferably with DC's phone (sadly) accidentally put in the trunk, "can't stop on the freeway". By "weird", I mean the big bads: bullying, drugs, sexual abuse, and the like. Time to check the phone, facebook, email, and other accounts. If nothing "weird" is going on, then reading some of the books that others have suggested on this site may help (discussed here: http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....4858/Dealing_with_manipulative_beha.html )

It is my understanding that we are talking about much younger children... middle schoolers.

It is possible that experiencing "natural consequences" as middle schoolers, the children may have a better concept of consequences as high schoolers, when they are facing higher stakes.

Huge hugs, ultramarina. You have gotten through much, and you will help your DD through this, you really will. Deep breath. (Deep wine glass.)

Grasping at straws thought: is there by any chance a teacher, friend or relative whose opinion of her particularly matters to her, who may be able to talk to her about what's going on? Someone who's out of the daily fray can often get traction where we're just in too deep.

Natural consequences can be a tough concept when you can't separate the "can't" from the "won't". You don't want to accept unacceptable behaviour, and you do want your child to build up self-responsibility - - - BUT you don't want to punish for disability. And so often, the underlying driver for obnoxious behaviour is fear. What is she afraid of?

Digging out and supporting the underlying problem while uncompromisingly addressing the bad coping behaviour is a brutally-tricky tightrope walk. With flaming alligators underneath (uh.... think I've been reading too much Rick Riordan with the kids, sorry). The Manipulative Child is the book that keeps coming up here; I remember HK and others as huge fans. Maybe it could help untangle some of this?