Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy extremes in temperament?

My DD9 hates to be told how to do ANYTHING. She will ask for help, then snatch it back while you are in the middle of explaining how to do it (but haven't finished so she will mess it up and of course blame you), bite your head off, yell at you, and otherwise make trying to help her the worst experience of your life.

Beyond that, she will talk back and make snarky remarks for no reason.

When she's being sweet, she's wonderful, but when she's being mean or snarky it's horrible to be around her. All suggestions appreciated.

PS she just got a japanese pipe cleaner kit to make a panda. Instructions very hard to understand. I went on YouTube to see if there's a tutorial, all the while her screaming at me not to do that) I find her a tutorial and tell her now she can watch it and do it herself (since that's obviously what she wants to do) then she wants to watch only a step at a time and do that step. I explain it's better to watch the whole thing and get an overview, then go step by step. Nope HUGE TANTRUM. I think this has something to do with an unholy mix of anxiety and perfectionism but I can't figure out what to do. I finally took it all away and told her that when she calmed down we could try again (this was after I warned her that that is what would happen).

Have you talked to her about this pattern when she's not in the middle of trying to learn something? Specifically pointed out that it makes people not want to try to help her? What does she say?

My DD can be like this. She has ADHD and is particularly volatile when she is not medicated, or when it is wearing off. I try not to engage with her. For instance with the panda, I probably would have calmly (albeit irritably) told her that I'm not going to help her if she's going to yell at me. Dh tends to get in ridiculous arguments w/ her, like they are both 7 years old ("I said X" "no you didn't!" Yes I did!" "No you didn't!", you get the idea), which just makes things worse, esp. as they get more and more off-topic.

Strangely, she is not like this at school...I think she knows that people would dislike her. Teachers get up in arms about my other kid and his mild grumbling, like he must be pathological because of it, but he is a piece of cake compared to DD at home.

I agree with ElizabethN. I might ask, how would you feel if someone else asked you for help and then did this to you?

I'll add that we don't tolerate this kind of behavior in our house. We tell our kids that this kind of thing is very disrespectful to others, and that it reflects very poorly on the person behaving badly (e.g., people might not want to play with you or be near you at all, and other kids might even say mean things about you because they feel so frustrated). A tantrum in a situation like this would earn a punishment of some sort in our house (often a loss of a privilege).

I see taking instruction gracefully as a critical social skill: learn this or have big trouble when you get older.

Kids naturally test their limits, which is normal. Part of this process involves figuring out which behaviors are acceptable and which ones aren't. I see part of my job as a parent as being teaching them which ones are which. IMO, tantrums are never okay, not even in a toddler (expected and age appropriate =/= okay).

Yes, I think this needs to be viewed through a behavioural lens. There may well be some anxiety and perfectionism fueling the fire, and that needs to be addressed, but she foremost needs to understand that her chosen manner of expressing herself is unacceptable.

A social story might help. Give her the scaffolding she needs to see what appropriate behaviour looks like when she faces common challenges, and provide a reward for following your prescribed set of steps. Ensure there are meaningful consequences to her for any problem behaviour every time it surfaces. If she misses a step or fails while sincerely trying, that's not punishable, but pitching a fit or being rude is.

If it's any consolation, my DS has been going through a boundary testing phase lately, and I've had to leverage social stories. They work. Tonight we had an hour of parental propaganda after a challenging episode at the dinner table, followed by writing our own social story together. This may not apply well to others' children, but I find acting out the offending behaviour myself or responding the way a peer would helps DS see why a course of action is problematic. Parents are the gentlest teachers; let her learn this lesson with you and not someone else.

One of my dc is a lot like this, and we deal with it by ignoring rude, snarky remarks. When she needs help, if she's not respectful to the family member helping her, then we stop helping. Simple as that.

With our dd, it's a need to feel like she's in control, as well as wanting to be sure that she's seen as capable as anyone else. She doesn't act this way at school or other places because she's trying to look good to others - good behavior, good student etc. At home, her feelings tend to bounce right out with no filter - but there are also a few clues we see too - she's able to keep better control of her emotions when she's not tired or hungry or otherwise stressed. We can't control every tiny bit of stress in her life, but we keep healthy snacks handy and when she does overreact to something like this, we ask her if she's hungry. If we think she's tired, we suggest putting whatever it is aside until tomorrow or some later time when she will be less tired.


Just curious - why? I think this is more personal preference than a hard-set rule re how to approach putting together something new. I understand that this might not lead to her successfully assembling the panda, but when you give her a video to watch to figure out something, I'd let her decide how to watch.

Best wishes - personalities like this can be really tough to parent!

polarbear

My DD7 has moments like this. It is always so discouraging and upsetting as a parent to see your child behave this way and have that moment of "wow, my kid might be a jerk." I usually (try to) calmly remind her that it's ok to be frustrated when something is tough or a task is new and confusing, but it is never ok to scream and throw fits. She has shown some improvement over the last year. Or maybe I've just gotten tougher about telling her she may not get out of control or she will need to stop the task and take a break.

I also tend to tell myself that this seems to be a form of rage to master. There is a positive side to this behavior-- she has what I call "the tenacity gene." She wants the challenge, she is determined to conquer it, and she will not give up. Those are positive things. It's just so difficult in the moment to remain firm and calm when she is falling apart and lashing out at me or other family members.

My only advice is to keep fighting the good fight.

Polarbear, there are two reasons I wanted her to watch the tutorial first..she has a pattern of "jumping the gun" and doing something that she then cannot undo - like cutting instead of folding.. she often doesn't fully understand what she is doing but just jumps in. With cooking I let her make mistakes. I have more eggs and flour. With this kit, I could not just drive to the store and get a second one, or deal with the huge tantrum that would ensue when she made the mistake. Secondly, and more importantly the tutorial was not for the panda specifically, it was for a bear kit made by the same company - so it wasn't exactly the same thing but I thought it would help us (along with the confusing written instructions) figure out how to make the panda.

However your description of your DC (and blackcat) sounds the most like my DD. I am doing all these things. When she is in the kitchen, and she is doing something that we tell her to stop doing (and she talks back) she is told if she continues I will kick her out of the kitchen. That worked. After this happened and she was calm, I do/did tell her that her behavior is unacceptable to people- that some people will tolerate it in 2 year olds but they will not tolerate it from a child her age. I also tell her I understand because I was very like her at her age, and that it is important because she has big emotions that she will have to develop ways of coping with them. I explained what coping mechanisms were (e.g., if you have a friend you are fighting with and don't want to say something you will regret you should leave and come back when you are calmer and they are calmer for instance)

I do remember these feelings and they were almost like rage attacks… you get so frustrated you can't stand it and blow up. I explained to her that the ability for her to control her emotions may also be dependent on whether she is tired or hungry (which lower her ability to cope). I hesitate to give her the message that she is "bad" because these traits may be related to a 2nd E we have in the family (and like ADHD) you can either get the message that you are "bad" and it becomes a part of your self view, or you can see your qualities more positively but something you have to manage: For instance, having strong emotions that can be a positive thing if used responsibly. Previously I explained to her that having big emotions is like a super power- if you can burn things with your eyes, you want to use it when you need to use it for good, not on innocent bystanders and your friends. It's just that when she is in it (and I remember what it was like, still do lose it sometimes) it's very hard to talk yourself down.

Forgot to address general (non-tantrum) bad tone/brattiness: with that I always say to her - how could you say that in a way that would make me want to help you? Or I address it in some other way that makes her have to think about how she is saying something. If she tries but her tone is still bad, I will model for her what I want to hear. If she doesn't get it after that (which is rare) I just walk away and ignore her.

My problem is I think I am doing a good job, but then we have a blowup like yesterday and then I feel like I'm not getting anywhere. It's very wearing

My DS17 can be this way & I know how frustrating it is. And the best way i found towards dealing with this is to make myself out of the equation as often as possible. Sometimes it's not possible for various reasons including safety, ownership, or importance. And then either stepping back & taking a break or telling her she isn't ready for such a project is necessary.

In the case of this craft project. Let her do it HER way, by herself. If she messes is up.. she messes it up. IMO she will learn more by messing up the craft panda than doing a perfect job. And craft projects are the perfect place to learn this kind of thing.

And yes.. if all it's doing is frustrating her & her fit about it is disturbing the rest of the household. By all means take it away & tell her she can't work on it unless she can calm herself down.

bluemagic- that's what I did in this instance. I also feel mistakes are important, so I usually do let her do it herself. But this project was too complicated for her to do by herself. The last time this happened I took the project away, and when I gave it back to her, she was careful not to get into that melt down place again so it worked.

I do think I need to find a way to turn down the sassiness talkback though.