Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Suggestions for class makeup for next year

I find quite often that my idea of what is a reasonable request to the school differs from opinions on here. Can I use you as a sounding board to see what's reasonable?

My K son is in a smaller school environment. There are only 2 K classes in his program. This year we got lucky in that there are 3 kids (my son and 2 other boys) that appear to all be in that ~135ish IQ area and are math kids.

I would like to email the principal and ask if my son can be placed together with one of these boys (or possibly both) for 1st grade next year. It has been a HUGE help to my son to be in class with these kids. Is that reasonable? Is there a right way to word it?

The 3 have learned nothing in math all year in class, but they get each other and have a peer group at school. Also they talk about things like multiplication and prime numbers during math when the other students are still working on the assignment and during recess, etc.

The 3 kids from this class plus 2 girls from the other class get pulled out once a week for gifted services run by a parent. So the school may see this as satisfying the peer group component, but of course there's a huge difference between one hour a week and all week being in the same class.

Complicating the issue is that one of the girls has a mom (a friend of mine, not complaining here) that's asking to be in with the group of 3 boys that are together now, because she can see that it has benefited my son. Ideally they'd take all 5 AIG kids and put them in the same classroom and they could be grouped together for instruction, but I don't think it's likely the school would be willing to do that. I'm not sure the teachers would be happy to divide things up that way.

You can see even from this discussion I'm not really articulating well what I want. I don't know what to ask for. Ideally all 5 kids could be grouped together. I think that's best for those 5 kids. I don't think that would make a huge difference for my son though, because I think actual differentiated instruction is unlikely next year. So I think for him I'm more likely to get and the most important part would be to be grouped with one of those 2 boys.

Thoughts?

Before my DS was placed for 1st grade, his K teacher suggested that I talk to the principal to place my son with a teacher who's strong in both academic and social skills and a few kids who are close to my son's academic level to help him socially. They did exactly that and I am very happy with the result, especially socially and that was our main concern when he entered 1st grade.

I don't think it's too much to ask, IMO. You want your son to have a peer who he can relate to better. They help either other socially and academically. Having all five of them in one class may not be possible, but just two or three of them together would be beneficial.

We managed to do this for DS back in grade 2. In the spring I went in to request that for the next year they would put DS with the teacher that would best be able to differentiate and since I knew how much work it would be I asked if it would be possible to also put X who was also gifted in the same class so that they wouldn't have to have two teachers differentiating for gifted kids. The school happily did it (although in our case it was only 2 kids and we were coming off a DISASTER of a year so they kind of knew they had to do something for DS). The actual differentiation was pathetic in the end but at least he had a buddy.

Is there a parent among the parents of the five kids who has a really good relationship with the principal? If so, is it possible for that parent to talk (not email) with the principal to see if anything might be done to group them all together in class? I'd ask if it might make it simpler for pull-outs for the teacher(s) if everyone like that was together... etc.

Yes, actually my friend that is the mom of one of the girls spoke with the principal earlier in the year about this and one of them suggested the idea. I think the principal was open to it/positive about it, but I'm being a little cynical about if it will really happen. I will ask her if she minds making the request again.

I almost want to send a separate request about my son and the 2 boys though, in case the answer to the first question is no. But I don't want to derail her efforts in any way, if she does agree to take the request to the principal.

Should I also just go talk to the principal about it? Would that be better? I don't want to waste her time on something that could be in an email. However I also need to talk to her about single subject acceleration testing, so... maybe there's enough there to discuss that it won't feel completely ridiculous to request a 15 min meeting?

I think it would be good to have more than one parent making the same request. Power in numbers! IME, it's best to have these conversations either in person or by the phone so you get the response/reaction right away. It's too easy for things to go awry on e-mail, whereas you can hear her thoughts on it and respond as needed if you are on the phone. Setting up a 15 minute conversation would depend on whether or not you have found appts. to be what works best in your school system.

One way to approach this might be to ask them if they could provide a 'gifted cluster'. This is the terminology my son's public school used to do exactly what you want. While the official line was there was no testing or GATE till 4th grade. They did attempt to cluster the top kids so they would have peers and teachers who broke kids into small groups.

Okay, thanks everyone!

Follow up question... spoke with the teacher about it today during my weekly volunteer spot. Teacher thought it was a great idea to keep my son and one of the two boys together. She thinks they really help each other and are great working together in class. This is the one I would have singled out as well. She said the K teachers will make the initial list and it will be adjusted by the principal as needed. She suggested I also pass on the request to the principal just to be sure.

The teacher reminded me (I guess I'd forgotten) that DS spent the entire first month and a half of K sitting by himself in the corner, not interacting with the class. Since that time he's come out of his shell and been a leader in the classroom. It is true that he really does sit back and feel out a situation before becoming part of it, if that makes sense.

Anyway, K teacher thinks email to the principal should highlight that DS is slow to adjust to new situations as a supporting reason for pairing the two kids together. My husband is adamant that we not make the request by highlight DS's weaknesses, when they really haven't been an issue. He doesn't want him labelled in some way.

I'm not sure which reasoning to take when asking for the request. My real reason is that this other boy is his intellectual peer, but I don't know how to say that without triggering anti-gifted reactions in people.

Thoughts?

Yes. This is the real request _I_ want to make. But how to make it sound okay?

I'm afraid the term "gifted cluster" will be off putting. This is not a school really excited about it's gifted offerings...

Our school uses high-ability clusters, if you prefer that phrasing. Even before achievement testing. It's not "official" I'm sure because it might look like tracking, but it was something I pushed for and it makes differentiation easier for the teacher.

Well, I understand and agree with your husband's reasoning... but the teacher has given you a code phrase that she may know will work. Could you do both? Request as this has helped him adjust plus they seem to be working at a similar, advanced level?

I was going to suggest high-ability or advanced learners, too. It's less problematic for many people.

Hmm, I'm not sure why I said my husband is "adamant" ... sorry, that's a little dramatic. I think it's more accurate to say he is concerned. So he's definitely open to whatever will work, but is being cautious.

I think you guys are right, "high-ability" or "advanced learners" seems to go down a little easier. And yes, I think I'll include both reasons in a finely crafted email I am SURE to overthink.

Thanks everyone.

My experience is they like to spread the bright kids out evenly because it makes it easier for the teachers. The one time they did put 3 gifted kids in one class they only allowed 2 kids from each class to attend extension programming. You only have 2 classes though and the sound less crazy. Just saying what seems logical to you may be the opposite of school practice.

Yes, this was the feedback from my mom as well, who used to teach elementary.

There are elementary schools in our county that do gifted clustering, but they tend to be very big. In that case I get the idea that there are enough high performing students to go around, so the teachers don't feel much of a drop off getting the second tier of advanced students. The one I know that does a good job of it has 6 K classes.

Honestly, in our experience, schools are much more interested in addressing children's perceived social weaknesses and emotional issues in early elementary than they are in helping children improve upon their academic strengths. The level of support our children received for social/emotional issues was MUCH higher than the level of support that was offered for their academic strengths, even though in one case the lack of addressing academic needs was actually causing the other issues.

They may be much more likely to help your son resolve/avoid a possible "weakness" than to help him build upon an academic strength. If the teacher is suggesting wording to use in the email you should seriously consider doing it, even if it is different than the wording you would use. She probably knows what would work.

Thanks. I think you're right.

I don't think my son has major issues or anything. But sitting in the corner of the class by yourself for a month and a half before engaging with the class isn't exactly normal, either. He does have some trouble transitioning to new situations that he could use help with.

Sort of hard to really know though, since he also decided he wanted to teach himself the multiplication tables the first month of school. On recess he sat skip counting to himself and using his fingers to keep track of his work. Knowing that makes me feel a little better about it. He wasn't sad he was just focused on something else. But I'm sure to a K teacher he looked really off!

I do understand your husbands concern, but agree that elementary teachers and principals will be much more amenable to reasons related to social or emotional deficit as opposed to academic or intellectual growth for kids who are ahead anyway.

However, the teacher has actually suggested a positive wording which does not allude to a deficit at all - "really help each other and work very well together" - you may run the wording your request by her next time you volunteer, sort of casually, just to be sure you've got it right in edu-speak, KWIM? As an administrator, I'd think "anything that makes a classroom run more smoothly".

Really, it should be a non-issue.