Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Slow Processing, Can You Grow Out Of It?

Interesting thoughts bluemagic. We live it a very educated area and it seems every kid has a passion and gift is one area or another. Parents shell out all sorts of money for private instruction so their kids can be competitive. My 13 year old is very passionate about ballet. We do tend to pay a lot for this, but since she is so passionate about it, we feel the expense is justified.

I think it is easy to lose sight of the fact that she is infact 10 years old. She has a lot of things to try and it's an exciting time with low pressure to explore.

As far as ambidextrous. I think I'm not clear on the actual definition. She was not crossing her midline at age 5 and had not chosen a dominant hand. She was right handed by first grade though.

I fixed her pencil grip the summer before first grade and it is beautiful now! The school was not worried but she had a four finger grasp!

She has always been left legged and a lefty when she was in gymnastics...another thing she was very good at, but didn't like the pressure.

She is left-eyed and turns left in dancing.

BUT she is right handed. Maybe this is part of her issues. Might it also have something to do with reversing letters, numbers? This part of her is a mystery to me. She worked sooo incredibly hard to fix this. I can see her pausing before b's and d's still to think.

No wonder her processing is slow. Imagine you had to consider all the directions of a letter each time your wrote it?

I wish I understood this more. I don't know any other children her age who do this. The school is not addressing it. They encourage her to type.

Your stories are very helpful to me.

I go from having so much hope for her and thinking she will outgrow the struggle to feeling like maybe we should just give her the easy classes in school and not worry about it.

But in the end it sounds like it is a balance and she may need support sometimes and teaching her to ask for help and advocate for herself may be the best thing I can do her for her at this point.

sydness, I am personally not a fan of the term "slow processing speed". What you have in terms of quantifiable data for your dd (that is listed here) are significantly lower scores on some IQ subtests relative to others, and fluency achievement subtests. Each of these subtests require extremely discrete tasks, and when compared to other subtests can give wonderful insight into a child's strengths and challenges - but they don't paint the full picture, and looking at them without looking at academic performance, developmental history, and additional tests to determine why the scores are low really leaves you without much information. It sounds like you've had your dd tested through school (I apologize if I'm assuming this incorrectly - it's just a guess based on what you'r written). It's important to realize that when a school tests they are looking at impact on academics only, in many cases they are not going to recommend therapies/accommodations/remediation/etc for students who don't fall below a very low bar, and they are limited to giving the tests they need to prove/disprove a student qualifies for services. When they have that answer, they don't need to dive further to understand the *why*, the full life impact of a potential disability, or give you a long-term plan and insight into needs/impact, or make recommendations for private therapies. Schools are also often severely budget constrained and this impacts not only services but access to testing. Please know I'm not knocking school testing and schools in general in *any* way, just pointing out that you probably don't have all the answers that would be helpful in understanding what's going on with your dd.

If your dd had a neuropsych eval, chances are she would have had additional testing to determine why there is a relative dip in processing speed and fluency tests. Processing speed on the WISC and the related subtests on the WJ-III Cognitive Abilities test can be relatively low for a huge number of reasons. Things that neuropsychs typically would do in addition to those tests include an extended parent interview which would discuss things such as the things you've mentioned that look like ambidexterity. What you mention *might* be true ambidexterity, or it *might* mean your dd has never developed a right-vs-left dominance, and those are two slightly different things. The neuropsych would also run a test such as Beery VMI to determine if the dip in processing speed might be due to either visual motor challenges or fine motor challenges. He/she would also most likely be noting how your dd writes as she works through the testing, checking not only pencil grip but how she forms letters, are her efforts fluid and easy or slow and requiring a lot of mental effort.

I have no idea what's really up with your dd, but there are many things in your OP and replies that sound quite a bit like my ds, who has diagnoses of Developmental Coordination Disorder (Dyspraxia) and dysgraphia. In no way shape or form do I consider him to have "slow processing speed", so I'm going to list the similarities not as a suggestion that your dd has the same diagnoses, but as an example of why it's not always a good idea (from my perspective) to extrapolate that a person has "slow processing speed" to mean anything more than they have relatively low scores on "processing speed subtests". Hope that makes sense! When I read the term "slow processing speed" in a broader sense it seems ambiguous and suggests that it's thought the person is, in general, slow in a cognitive sense, which is not the case for many of the kids who have relatively slow ps subtest scores. Dysgraphia and DCD cause my ds to *write* slow, prevented him from developing automaticity of handwriting, cause awkward and slow movements in some respects, and cause him to appear to respond slowly in some instances. Some sports are beyond his coordination in huge ways, but he enjoys cross-country running, skiing, and riding bikes. He does not have a right-left-hand dominance, but he has always appeared to be right-handed. He was never interested in ballet, but his sisters both took ballet so I've sat through many a ballet class and I can promise you that thanks to that lack of hand dominance combined with some spatial awareness challenges due to DCD, he would have been able to participate but looked like the clumsy kid who just couldn't "get it"

So - I'm guessing you're wondering, will he ever "grow out of it"? No. But that's ok - DCD/dysgraphia are a piece of who he is but they don't define him. And they really aren't all that terribly challenging in many ways because... it's easy to *accommodate* for so much of it. The whole world we live in uses a keyboard for communication, rarely handwriting outside of school. DS and many dysgraphics start keyboarding as soon as they are diagnosed to bypass handwriting challenges. It doesn't mean they aren't taught how to use handwriting, it just means that it's acknowledged that it isn't a reliable form of communication for them. DS actually doesn't type all that quickly either due to his DCD, but it's not a struggle.

Do children grow out of dysgraphia? Not really, but it's not uncommon to see developmental growth around the same time puberty hits. The gotcha there is - neurotypical kids are also having developmental growth spurts around the same time, so no matter how much better things might seem for your individual child, it doesn't necessarily mean a child has "caught up" or that they aren't still impacted by dysgraphia. It's important to remember with dysgraphia in particular that even when handwriting looks great and grip is ok etc, the act of handwriting takes up most of a person's working memory, leaving little in-the-moment brain power left over for thinking about punctuation, grammar, or most importantly *ideas* and communicating full knowledge.

There are a few things that dysgraphic kids do tend to "outgrow" - they will eventually stop reversing letters, as your dd has, same thing happened with my ds, just very late compared to other children. He made a ton of math errors around 4-5 grade when he was first tasked with doing long division, large number multiplication, and multi-step math problems due to switching numbers and making frequent copy mistakes. He still does make some of those errors, but they've decreased dramatically in the past few years. You wrote:


That is not "slow processing speed" - that is classic dysgraphia.


Encouraging her to type is actually a good thing - it will give her a means to share her knowledge without struggling through lack of automaticity in handwriting. If she's dysgraphic, automaticity of handwriting is something she will likely never truly develop, and giving her handwriting accommodations is a good thing - it will enable her to fully participate in classes that are matched appropriately to her cognitive strengths. Accommodations aren't an "out", they are an aide. Would you send your dd to school without glasses or contact lenses if she had eyesight issues?


I disagree with this (please know I mean this with no disrespect!) - I think the best thing you can do for your dd right now is to get a proper diagnosis, understand what's really going on, and *you* (paired with professionals) figure out what she needs in terms of accommodations and remediation for the short term as well as put together a general idea of what she'll need for the longer term and for life, not just school. She needs you, at this age, to do that step for her, and in that way you'll be giving her the tools she needs to become her own best advocate as she matures. Teaching her to ask for help and to advocate for herself is important, but she's still just a kid and I think, at this point, neither of you really understands fully what's going on - and that's the first step to take, and it's a step that the adults in her life need to undertake.

Best wishes,

polarbear

OH Polerbear, that's all heavy..hitting a little hard..I remember you from years ago when I was on here. How is the ballet going? My big kid is very serious now and thinking about going to conservatory of some sort. I am not letting her because the poor academics.

You are correct. The school was very generous in testing her, because they thought she showed signs of a LD.

She types slow.

She can't spell.

She reads crazy well, fast and deep.

Her special ed teacher told me she is brilliant and she gets so caught up in the thinking/research part of the assignment and gaining knowledge far beyond the assignment but doesn't get to putting it on paper.

She assures me that she is capable.

I can't help but want to believe her.

There has always been something very odd about her coordination.

She can tie her shoes..she knows the steps, but at 10, still cant do it quick enough. She had the OT look at her. They noted odd approach to writing letters, bottom to top, but functional. Her penmanship score came in as a much older child.

The gave her some standardized OT test and she passed. Twice.

She could ride a bike no training wheels at 4.

She has amazing accuracy when pitching.

She folds beautiful paper products.

She had beautiful cursive when copying.

But functionally, she cannot write. Her teacher prints out the homework for the week for her because she cannot copy it quickly enough off the board. When she does write it, you can't read it.

The odd part is that she carries too many things. When she doesn't need to. Like she forgets to put one thing down before picking up another. Even if holding the object interferes with what she is trying to do. She always forgets to put it down. I have to tell her and then she puts it down. She is known in our family for being amazing for pouring milk to the very top of the glass without it overflowing. But then she leaves her glass in front of her plate and has to reach around the glass to access her food..even when the glass is empty!

I will talk to my husband. I will contact a neuropsych.. I hate to put her through it. She is just getting over her LD diagnosis. It threw her for a loop. Messed with her big time. She was invited to the gifted program and she is not thriving. She said that there is not enough structure in the class. She doesn't understand what she is supposed to be working on.

I sooo appreciate you thoughtful response. Your boy sounds similar to my girl. It makes me very sad for them. These smart little brilliant minds - and people look at them sideways for being slow, or whatever.

One area she seems to never need help is Science..

I'll look into getting more answers. You say that slow processing is a symptom? Not an answer.

Ah. That would be the "all gifted kids are motivated self learners with great executive function" theory.

Ah. That would be the "all gifted kids are motivated self learners with great executive function" theory.

Echoing polarbear: processing speed is a symptom, not necessarily a specific condition. Many different factors affect processing speed.

In your DD's case, her processing speed is not motor-dependent (per low decision speed score on the WJ; processing speed test with minimal motor demands). That score also does not reflect reversal errors, as the images used are not symbolic. With what you describe of the teacher's report, and behaviors like picking up too many objects and reaching around the glass, I would suspect that the direction to look on a neuropsych would be executive functions, as many of these are related to planning and organization, and probably either encoding or retrieval as well (with low math fact fluency, and her early history of reading delays).

What math fact fluency, early reading, handwriting, spelling, and reading music all have in common is that they are arbitrary symbolic systems which one must master before one is able to engage in meaningful, relevant activities with them. (I suspect that she has not mastered handwriting, in spite of its lovely appearance, because her actual application of handwriting is so much poorer than when demonstrating the skill in untimed isolation.)

She has exceptional reading fluency now, most likely, because she finally acquired enough reading vocabulary (whether by sight, or by reaching automaticity with orthographic mapping/phonetic decoding) not to have to work out each word as she is reading it. I wouldn't be so sure that she is not a very well compensated dyslexic. You note that spelling is one of her primary weaknesses. That is very telling. If she is a compensated (stealth) dyslexic, she will probably need explicit instruction in spelling in order to close the gap between her reading and writing vocabulary.

To your original question: whether her processing speed will improve/normalize over the long-term on formal testing depends on why it is low to begin with. It also isn't nearly as important as whether she can learn accommodations such that she is able to reach a point in her life where it is not an obstacle to achieving her happiness or accomplishing her goals. The answer to the first is unclear. The answer to the second is yes, but it will be easier to attain if she has a clear understanding of her personal profile.

Yes. I'm seeing I need to look into this as much as I don't want to. She was not a late reader. She was a very early reader, but with tracking and convergence issues, which once fixed went to reading Junie b. jones books in Kindergarten all seven Harry Potter in first grade. I still considered her to have dyslexic symptoms, but could not bring myself to demand testing when she is in the percentile for reading fluency and comprehension.

Knowing that should I continue to investigate this? They briefly looked into executive function in second grade. They had her build a tower. There was a tower already built and then they gave her a box of blocks to recreate the tower. They watched her process. The OT said that one of the blocks did not come out of the box when she dumped it and my daughter knew right away that there was a block missing, even before the OT and that she built it very very quickly. She did say that her original approach was off, but she always corrected it. Does that rule out Executive Function.

She seems to have every issue I read about until she is tested and blows the test out of the water. Why would she score in the 98 percentile on an OLSAT without extra time with slow processing. My older daughter scored in the 97th percentile and did not finish the test with NO LD (though not tested, just pretty obvious). So many questions!

I will look into finding answers. You are all so very helpful!

Thank you

The additional information about tracking and convergence does clarify her reading situation. However, her spelling gap still suggests compensated dyslexia.

The block-building exercise done by the OT does not rule out EF deficits, firstly, because it was a very limited, non-standardized sample (mainly of visual-spatial problem-solving), incidentally addressing aspects of planning ability, not a comprehensive measure of EF, which consists of several distinct dimensions. Oh, and secondly, because OTs are generally not qualified to conduct comprehensive assessments of EF. So actually, it says very little one way or the other about her executive functions.

For good EF evaluation, better assessment instruments might include the D-KEFS or NEPSY-II, WRAML-2, RCFT, or rating scales like the BRIEF-2 or CEFI. And generally, it would be conducted by a psychologist (neuro, clinical, or school).

On the OLSAT, I am not all that surprised that she was able to complete it quickly, as it is entirely multiple choice, which takes away most of the fine-motor speed and retrieval efficiency factors that may affect processing speed. In fact, if we postulate that her processing speed is a signal of deficits in planning, organization, and retrieval fluency, the format of the OLSAT essentially accommodates for most of them, as no new responses must be generated. Planning and organization are accounted for in the highly-structured, standardized format, and retrieval is supported by the multiple-choice format, which allows for recruiting recognition skills to support free recall skills. Plays to her strengths, and masks her weaknesses, in other words.

Ambidextrous is not something to be worried about, it's fairly rare and quite special IMO. But it might explain not being able to understand left-from-right easily. My husband is ambidextrous yet appears as if he is right handed since default in our society is to teach kids to do things right handed. We live in a right handed world. Just because she writes with her right hand doesn't mean she isn't ambidextrous. In fact your description of her being left-footed makes me think she probably is. What my husband can do that I CAN NOT (broke my thumb and was so frustrated for 2 months because I couldn't write) is while he uses he right most of the time he can quickly come up to speed doing things with his left. Basically he can learn to use either hand and isn't inherently "handed". He can write beautifully with both hands, eat comfortably with either, etc. And what I can do is instantly tell which is my right hand because I just "know" which is my dominate hand.

I also live in a very educated area and although it may SEEM like every kids has a passion by 10. This is not necessarily true. My kids are 21 & 17 and they have had friends. I've seen these passions come & go. I've seen kids which passions at this age become bored and move onto other things in H.S. And I've seen kids become passionate bout things in H.S. It's OK for a kid not to have a passion as a child IMO. And I've seen kids who's parents have dumped tons of $$ into something like sports, ballet, or other activity give it up in a fit of disgust and frustration in H.S. (Or after H.S.) There is a lot of pressure on kids to stay in activities their parents have dumped lots of money into. And not to discourage you I've also seen kids who stay committed and still love their activity well into adulthood. You just have to go into it with the right attitude. I don't regret my daughter taking 5 years of theater classes and going into photography. Those classes were fun & good for her.

P.S. Comment on the posts after this. My DS got a 99% on the OLSAT in 3rd grade. He was tested with low processing speed in H.S. Certain types of tests he has very little problem with while others really bog him down.

An additional comment on handedness: your description actually sounds more like it may be mixed dominance, as distinct from ambidexterity, both of which some resesarchers believe may be related to neurological conditions, such as learning disabilities and ADHD.