Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional High reading level but low comprehension???

ITA. I'll also add that it can be a confusing and difficult issue to see. Our now-high-school ds has an expressive language disorder, but we didn't really notice signs of it until he was first diagnosed and accommodated for dysgraphia, as well as matured enough to be able to tell us when he was struggling with output (he started telling us about it around 4th grade / 9 years old). He was diagnosed at 10 years old with the expressive language disorder, but even that diagnosis has changed a bit over the years after working with an SLP on some of the basics, then other pieces of the challenge-puzzle become apparent. I am a huge proponent of having a neuropsychological or some type of global assessment when you suspect issues like this. The diagnosis is just one part of the eval - the important thing is you'll come out of it (hopefully) with a much better understanding of what's going on with your child, as well as recommendations for a path forward to accommodate and remediate. It's not the end of the testing phase necessarily either - for instance, if the neuropsychologist feels there may be a reading-related issue, he/she may recommend further testing by a reading specialist. The key though is, when you go to those other follow-up specialists (such as the OT), you won't be going there "in the dark" with just a guess, you'll be going to the appropriate professional for evaluation/help.

In your OP you mentioned your ds "read" a large book by skipping pages with all text, and asked if this has happened with other people here. My dd who has a reading challenge did this - especially in 3rd/4th grade when the other kids in school were starting to read "big" books and she wanted to look like every other kid. The Warrior books were really popular then, and she'd check out a new book every week when her class went to the school library. She's in 6th grade now, has had years of reading tutoring and help, and *still* will say she's read a book when she's really not even looked at most of it. Reading challenges can be very tough, and if there is one, you need to figure that out early on. As the years go by in school, there's so much potentially lost in terms of vocabulary development that happens for children who aren't keeping up with reading comprehension. Plus by the time they are in middle school the ability to read well plays a key part in all their work.

Best wishes,

polarbear

That is exactly what a full evaluation will give you. I started to type something like this yesterday, couldn't make it "sound right," and deleted the whole thing in favor of what I did post. But the idea that he shouldn't bother getting diagnosed because the accommodations that he would get don't apply in a homeschool setting is wrongheaded. The point of testing isn't to get accommodations, it's to understand how to teach the kid so that he can reach his potential.

I would second seeking a comprehensive neuropsychological evaluation. If I am understanding correctly, most of the diagnostic information you have comes from OTs. As much as I love the OTs I've known and worked with, honestly, it's a field rife with diagnosis and treatment protocols that are, shall we say, not evidence-based. And, of course, the concerns you have are much wider than those falling within the expertise of an OT.

ElizabethN - I don't think I put that well/properly. It was meant in isolation for 1 thing - getting a handwriting evaluation done, the sole purpose of which seems to be to see if a child requires extra time to complete tests - seems not to hold much benefit in a homeschooling environment.

On the contrary, getting a full evaluation to give us the big picture is exactly what I'm looking for - I don't want us to start homeschooling and to end up feeling like we failed because we were missing a whole lot of info on DS that would allow us to make the accommodations that will be necessary regardless of how he's being educated.

You also need to understand that things are very VERY different here (in South Africa), just in terms of knowledge/awareness, even among the professionals - I have asked teachers about my concerns numerous times, I asked the psych he saw for school related anxiety (and who just wanted him on Ritalin even though she herself said the evaluation didn't indicate a strong likelihood of ADHD). There is very little in place here in terms of support and processes, and to be honest, I wasn't even aware we HAD any neuropsychologists, and apart from people on this forum, no-one has ever recommended we see one. (It turns out we do have neuropsychs - there are 42 registered with the association here - that's for a population of about 40-odd million).

So please don't think I'd just write everything off because we're going to homeschool, that's not at all what I meant. BUT, I did need to ask whether those of you who'd been through the evaluations had found them useful and meaningful enough to recommend them. He has been evaluated by an educational psychologist who said tests indicated sensory issues, and referred us to an OT who then did the SIPT etc. He's also seen what I'd call reading specialists at edublox, who did an evaluation on his reading, and worked with him on the areas they thought problematic. He's been for a full visual assessment and we've gotten glasses and done visual therapy. He's done TLP for auditory processing. He saw another psych for IQ tests, and yet another for the anxiety last year. None of these specialists seemed to pick up on anything they felt needed further investigation, and none of them advised us to do further checks, or to see anyone else.

I do think a lot of this has to do with simply not having experience with gifted kids - if he's (just about) coping with some grade-level stuff, and way above grade level on others, why on earth would we be concerned - that's basically the impression I get when I try ask someone here about this.

aeh, I appreciate your input - it's not that I'm only going to the OT with all this the whole time, it's just that my daughter is in OT now and I remember discussing possible dysgraphia with her when my son was still in OT, but at the time she said she could only test from age 9, so we didn't get there. Since he is now 9, I asked her about it again, and this was when she said the main purpose would be to ask for extra test time.

Thank you all for your advice, I appreciate it.

Sorry, this juxtaposition just made me laugh and I had to point it out.

Good luck to you!

I also suggest a full neurosyc workup if you can figure out a way to get one done. My two kids both have language processing disorders with varying degrees. DS16's (my gifted child) is only expressive language. While my older DD was diagnosed with an LD in language processing and struggles with both reading & writing. She would do what you describe as skipping/replacing small words and her comprehension was very poor. (Neither kid has handwriting issues.) But her decoding skills were right on grade level. DS on the other hand seemed to do great until 6th grade when he started to get 'stuck' when trying to write essays and didn't understand how to get the information in his brain out on paper. Evaluation and working with trained professionals have helped. It was a bit startling to realize my second child who seemed so advanced at a young age had some of the same challenges his sister did.

I have one suggestion for working with comprehension that comes from the professional who I hired to work with my daughter. Comprehension is best worked on with short non-fiction texts. Articles from a newspaper or magazine, 1-3 paragraphs taken from larger text. (These texts can then be at the child's reading level.) Non-fiction tends to be more concrete.

Have your son read fiction books at a level his is comfortable and work up. Clearly he is not ready for a book with too many pages without pictures so I'd back off on that until he is ready. It's just going to turn him off reading.

How about you try "The Invention of Hugo Cabret". It's a great book and it's "long" but still has many pictures and not too many on each page. And it's a Caldicot Medal winner.

As to is this part normal. I believe this a common asynchronicity in early/gifted readers. Teacher & parents tend to see reading level and say.. OK my kid should be able to read Harry Potter. But while my DS could read the "reading level" for HP in 1st grade he was NOT ready for that level of book. And it's why he spent most of K/1st reading non-fiction.

Reading level often is calculated basic on complexity of the words/vocabulary. I bet he finds Hugo Cabret an easier read even though they have very similar reading interest levels and reading levels. My experience was when you tested my son against short passages my son read extremely well he just wasn't ready for the task of reading quietly long stretches of just text. I don't think this is that unusual.

As I said in my previous post I would back off a bit on the "length" requirement of his fiction reading. Just make it fun. Has he tried the Geronimo Stilton books? They were a huge hit with my daughter when she was in 3rd grade. And I believe the use of multiple fonts per page helped. And Graphic Novels are an excellent choice. It's an area of books for children that's really growing and I think it particularly helps with kids like this.

Edited to add. Do you read with your child? I read with both my kids until they were older than your son. By K we were chapter by chapter reading a book together nightly before bed. (Often something 2-3 grade levels above their solo reading.) This is a great way to teach how to comprehend a longer book and I'm surprised how many parents stop reading to their child once they can read to themselves.

Good Luck

ElizabethN - Lol. I'm really "lucky" in that of the 42 neuropsychs, half of them are in our province, so chances of getting to see one (for us) are better than average. haha. But - if I hadn't had you all point me in that direction I wouldn't have ended up getting that million to one chance, you know?

bluemagic - his best friend is reading all the HPs, and loves to play at "dueling", so he keeps starting and trying to read it, but then I think his eyes just get tired - his first comment when he opened book 1 was that the text was way too small. (I saw recently that they've brought out an illustrated version of book 1, and this is on my Christmas list for him).

Reading the larger books is not something I've pushed (except where it's for the reading bingo for school, but for those we generally take him to the library or a book shop and let him pick a book that he wants to read that meets the criteria - it was just this time he wasn't with me, but he loved the movies so I thought he'd enjoy it, and he seemed to, but did the weird skipping thing) - he's gone through a number of Diary of a Wimpy Kid books, but I also think he's been skipping pages there, I don't think he's read the whole book.

It also now makes me wonder about the Roald Dahl's he's read, though I have to say that with those his comprehension seemed somehow better? Maybe the grade level/text size was just the right combination at the time?

He begged for a science textbook at a homeschooling expo we went for, which we got for him as it was layed out really nicely, almost like Ripley's / Guinness book of records with small chunks of info that he's enjoyed reading because he can read 2 paragraphs and get something from it and not feel he has to finish the chapter.

But I'll definitely use your tip in terms of building comprehension, thanks so much!

Oh - yes! I read with the kids every night as part of the bedtime routine, have done since DS was tiny. I will confess this has generally fallen away at the moment for DS as we've gone through a patch of longer homework/busier days/later bedtimes etc, so probably for the last month he's been reading on his own while I get the girls settled into bed, then we've just been doing prayers and a song... I'll revive this.

For homeschooling next year I very much want to let him go with his interests at whichever level he wants - as long as he's reading and enjoying it (which, for the most part, he seems to be), I'm not really phased about reading level - not in terms of my child HAS to be reading at X level by Y time type thing. More just a "why is my child reading at this level but struggled with comprehension and paragraph writing at this level?"

Thanks so much for all the input and advice... I'm trying to track down a neuropsych not too far from us, but will also ask for recommendations with the Mensa-associated psych who did DS's IQ assessment.

It might be worth seeing if an electronic version, where he can choose his font size, makes a difference. It really helps my DD with both reading and writing, though I couldn't tell you if it's due to her dyslexia, ADHD, visual processing or something else entirely. Just know she's much happier with 16 points than 10.

I am so much happier with 16 pt....the bigger the better!