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Joined: Feb 2011
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Just curious to how others handle this, particularly with HG kiddos that give off that eerily "knowing" or a little-too-adult vibe, which can rub adult authority figures the VERY wrong way sometimes.
There are instances in which such assumptions really, really matter-- for example, if your child is involved in disciplinary or criminal proceedings, or interacting with first respondiers or law enforcement, they may be viewed with suspicion, even if they are (legitimately) just trying very much to do the right thing (reporting a crime, telling what they saw or heard, exercising their own civil liberties, etc).
HG+ children may see consequences and outcomes far better than many adults in those situations, and may express very adult insights into the behavior, thinking, and motivations of others. In other words, they simply know things that most people can't/won't-- and worse, they often (being children) don't HIDE that they know them. Rather than being child-like, they may be knowing/solemn or express emotions that are not typical-- for example, pity for a classmate that has assaulted them, or concern for a child who has stolen an item... that kind of thing.
Some adults have never encountered a child like this before-- and may assume sociopathy or another pathology rather than the truth (which is profound asynchrony and high level logical thinking and emotional regulation).
What have others found to be particularly effective? What do you teach your CHILDREN about interacting with strangers as legitimate authority figures (such as a police officer or college dean, for example)?
Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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As another facet of this, how do you help your CHILD in this situation to understand that being branded a pathological liar/manipulative snot isn't about themselves so much as the person/institution that they are interacting with not understanding how to 'take' their innate nature as asynchronous children?
This is very analogous to the early childhood manifestation of a teacher who loathes the mistake-correcting, justice-oriented, and highly assertive/verbal child in his/her classroom, if that makes sense.
In tweens/teens, though, the consequences are far more damaging in both the real-world consequences and also in terms of the emotional damage.
Adolescents have surprising fragility when adults and authority figures label or judge them-- and HG kids may also have an unerring sense of what people are actually THINKING, meaning that any mitigation of this phenomenon either needs to be genuinely persuasive/educational to the individual who is making the judgment, or it needs to be aimed at changing how the child interacts to produce that judgment in the first place.
Obviously, being "right" doesn't always lead to good outcomes-- and nowhere is that more true than in dealing with police when one finds one's self in the wrong place at the wrong time. What are some ways to coach our gifted kids to defuse such situations, rather than inadvertently escalating them?
Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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Joined: Aug 2012
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legitimate authority figures? "Legitimate authority figure" is the crux of the matter for my kiddo (DS7). Authority figures in general feel they don't have to prove themselves to be "legitimate"- and this is especially true when they are dealing with kids. Many adults and most kids will simply comply when confronted by authority. DS responds well to working with a legitimate authority figure. The problem is that legitimacy can be easily damaged or destroyed by irrational actions or statements. As I've grown up, I've learned how to operate in this icky setting. But DS certainly has not, and his fury at being subjected to "illegitimate" authority is manifest. Sooooo - I try to move him along the path of diplomacy. Using words that acknowledge THE JOB the authority figure has to do, and trying to HELP, not conquer. DS has heard me say, softly, "I'm sorry - I don't think I made myself clear." Then go on to make my point. Later he asked - "Why did you apologize? You were clear. That guy was just not listening to you." I try to explain that the soothing words and tone are meant to defuse, and allow the person to hear me. And I gently point out that most adults aren't used to having this sort of discussion with kids. So, even if it's unfair, he has to be especially diplomatic. I use Piper's charmspeak as the template, if you are familiar with the second Percy Jackson series. Work in progress, since our family is chock full of sensitive thinkers who take offense rather easily ....
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Joined: Feb 2014
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I'd say that this is a process...
When DD was little, it was "no these other kids don't get you, but it's not your fault and it's not theirs -- try to find common ground and also others you connect with better."
As she got older, it was "not everyone is going to like you and yes, that means grownups too, and that's OK." And then on to the more nuanced "you have to evaluate the authority that the person holds over you and respond in a way that makes sense for the situation you're in" and "the adult probably thinks they are hiding their thoughts and opinions of you... maybe you should just let them think that."
I have to say that as she enters adolescence the messaging around civil authority figures is by necessity somewhat politically charged, and not just by me, but by DD -- who's well aware of what goes on in the news and has strong opinions. She's not particularly compliant and has a strong anti-authoritarian streak as well.
I don't want to politicize this thread, but I'll say that we are approaching it with message of situational behavior and awareness. That in the moment, she should focus on putting others at ease (a skill she is usually very good at) and staying safe and save complaints or questions of authority or fairness or process for a later time.
This sort of thing hasn't come up much yet, but neither has she been tempted by smoking, drinking, or drugs... yet we've been messaging around those situations to her for years too.
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I have more to say, but am short on time at the moment...
But some quick thoughts:
1. We've emphasized the distinction between authority as vested in a role, and authority as vested in a person.
2. Communication is not only about how well I express myself, but also about how the other person receives it. One can be gracious and diplomatic, and truthful at the same time, by reframing charmspeak (I like that term!) as an aid to effective communication. Do I convey greater truth by expressing myself in a way that feels more honest to myself, but is heard less accurately by the other person, or by adapting my presentation so that the message received by the other person better reflects my communicative intent?
...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...
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Joined: May 2012
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I show my kids how things can go terribly wrong when there are misunderstandings with authority. And I show them how authority holds all the cards, and that the most important thing is to get away without confusing things. So for my kids when they were young, we reviewed frequently to NEVER speak to a law enforcement officer, a school principal, or anyone else who can punish without first saying, "will you call my mom?" When the authority hears a kid say that, it ceases to be a threat to the child, and it gives some credibility. Recently, with the case of the "free range kids" who were picked up by police, calling the parents would certainly have been useful.
As they have grown into teens, I've told them to ask to tell their side of the story if they feel like it's been an incomplete picture. That way, they can come to me and let me know that whoever was the authority refused to listen to their side, and it gives me an opportunity to get involved.
And as they grow further, I tell them that if a police officer tells them to do something, DO IT. Ask questions later. We don't know why PO is asking, just that it needs to be done. So do it. Having police officers in the school helps them see this in action when kids don't obey.
As far as reporting crime, they've seen me make calls so they should be comfortable with it, but we only do it to "help" never to just report. I think you just have to accept being a different kind of reporter who may not seem credible and have low expectations because of that. In other words, involve a lawyer early as an advocate if you aren't heard or if you become accused. This is really good advice. I like it. I have a question though... How about if your child has to go to the principal office during school ? My child had to go to the principals office this past week for misbehaving ... It was fine, my son apologized and was in the wrong (and he awknowledged it and it wasn't a big deal) would you kiddos ask for you to be called in that situation ? Just curious how that works.
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One truly bizarre experience that my DD has run into is that the BETTER she seems to handle herself, (that is, the less "child-like" and irrational/unpredictable/emotional she is), the more she seems to wind some adults up. Not sure how to coach her out of that one. Here, honey-- study your agemates, and let's role play how a typical 16yo girl would handle being called into the dean's office (just an example). Here's how a typical 15yo would respond when a TSA agent tells them to do something that isn't technically required by law...  That's the kind of thing that I'm getting at. Spaghetti's advice is very very good in situations like that-- the child HAS to remind the adult somehow that in spite of their gut instincts, they ARE still dealing with a person who is very much a child.
Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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But I will definitely make sure my kids know to ask this if ever question by a police officer! For sure... Never even thought about it before!
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One truly bizarre experience that my DD has run into is that the BETTER she seems to handle herself, (that is, the less "child-like" and irrational/unpredictable/emotional she is), the more she seems to wind some adults up. Not sure how to coach her out of that one. Here, honey-- study your agemates, and let's role play how a typical 16yo girl would handle being called into the dean's office (just an example). Here's how a typical 15yo would respond when a TSA agent tells them to do something that isn't technically required by law... That's the kind of thing that I'm getting at. Spaghetti's advice is very very good in situations like that-- the child HAS to remind the adult somehow that in spite of their gut instincts, they ARE still dealing with a person who is very much a child. You could be right, but I'm wondering if it isn't so much her age and maturity as some particular cue or step she's making that is leading to this issue. Figure that out, then she can be coached on how to work around it in such situations. In other words, is there something other than her "age inappropriate behavior" that is like a red flag in front of a bull for certain types of authority figures? Not placing blame on her at all, just thinking from experience (mine!) that sometimes there are ways we come across that we need to tone down or phrase differently if we want to get through situations with minimal ill effects. That said, I am fully aware that some people are just jerks.
Last edited by ConnectingDots; 09/22/15 02:27 PM.
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As a simple matter of courtesy, I instruct my children to keep their opinions to themselves in those types of situations. Stick to the facts. After all, most adults, and particularly authority figures won't have the time or inclination to listen to speculation, especially coming from a child.
As a matter of self-preservation (ask any attorney), it is safer to say less and stick to facts; opinions and speculations can be misconstrued.
I have explained to my kids why shining the spotlight on their "savviness" can be annoying at a minimum and incriminating if misconstrued. Not every parent would be comfortable approaching it this way, but my kids are used to not having their feelings spared at home.
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