Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment "Use of SB5 in the assessment of high abilities"

There is an alternate scoring on the SBV. There is a SBV bulletin where you can combine certain subtests to get different composites that might show a strength or weakness that the FSIQ otherwise wouldn't tell you.

So Dottie...........that's the second or third time you dropped the "problems" bomb concerning the SB.

Scoop....

c'mon, inquiring minds want to know

On the SB5, DS got a FSIQ of >140. On the WISC IV, he got a FSIQ of 129 (!) (with a GAI of >145). He found the SB5 more engaging, especially the working memory subtests (which he ceilinged on the SB5 and got under 100 on the WISC). Not sure what that all means, but that is what I have to offer in the way of comparison. FWIW DS was pretty old when he took both tests, so ceilings were an issue.

acs-

Those scores together are quite unusual. Over 140 on the SB is very high, and if he had a "not quite" gifted fullscore on the WISC, that's a big discrepancy. That GAI score though, is in the same ballpark. Does he have 2e issues?

DS does not pay attention well to things that do not interest him. It is pretty clear that the WM task on the WISC did not engage him. I believe it is remembering strings of numbers. The SB5 WM tasks were embedded in what DS considered really fun games. As I said, he got a ceiling score on the WM tasks for the SB5 and they were in line with his other scores. But in the WISC, there was a >50pt spread between his highest (VCI) and the WM!

This is basically how he is all the time, if he is interested and cares, he is amazing. But he has a hard time focusing to bring the right things from class to class or home in the evening. He has a hard time with easy problems and does great on the hard ones.

So, I don't know, is that 2e? We haven't ruled out ADD, since DH has it. But, except for us frequently getting frustrated with him for forgetting stuff, there has been no indication of it interfering with his life, so we haven't pursued the diagnosis yet. We keep it in mind, though, in case he does run into serious problems with his spaciness in the longer run. I know, Lorel, that you have kids with ADD. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.

acs: My DS8 had the same issues with the WISC-IV!! He had a 42 point spread between his PRI and the WM, and a 29 point spread between his VCI and WM. I never really gave it a thought since most of the books say that the WM score drags the FSIQ down for most gifted kids. But he is a kid who has a photographic memory for anything that he has ever read or heard. And yet he scored really low on the WM. It made no sense to me.

Very, very, interesting!!

And for what it is worth, my DH has some symptoms of ADD (as do most of the boys in his family... a brother and cousins). But DS can sit and focus on books or building legos for hours at a time and not move a muscle. But if he is bored or unchallenged, then look out!!

Yep, that's my son to a T!!!

I'm sorry for taking this thread off the original topic but this statement bothers me as it goes against my understanding of AD/HD. My understanding is that while some children with AD/HD can complete tasks they enjoy without showing signs of attention problems they do in fact continue to have poor ability to organize, focus and attend to relevant information when trying to learn something new. Regardless of their interest in the topic, AD/HD makes learning difficult. At least that's my understanding. Perhaps I've misunderstood your comment?

I'm concerned that your comment about the "hallmark" of AD/HD might be misleading to some who are concerned about whether their child has it or not. I have checked a few websites, including CHADD http://www.chadd.org/Content/CHADD/Understanding/Symptoms/default.htm
and NIMH http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/adhd/symptoms.shtml
and the CDC which provides the DSM-IV diagnostic criteria:
http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/symptom.htm
but am not able to locate where ability to focus (or hyperfocus)on topics or areas of interest combined with complete inability to focus when not interested is considered a hallmark of AD/HD.

I don't mean to be disrespectful of your knowledge and experience, I just think it is very important to clarify what the disorder really looks like. This comes from both professional and personal experiences. Again, I do not mean to be rude or disrespectful. Just searching for information and clarity.

Debbie-

Thanks for bringing this up. You were very diplomatic, so don't worry about offending anyone. I think people are often under the impression that gifted kids can't have ADD. Also from the CHADD site: http://www.help4adhd.org/faq.cfm?fid=39&varLang=en

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/symptom.htm This criteria uses the word "often" which means that SOMETIMES, these individuals CAN and DO pay attention. I know there are gifted kids who are moved from inappropriate educational settings into challenging situations and their ADD type symptoms magically disappear. But my own kids have clear issue even learning at home, where they are allowed to work at their own pace and level. They exhibit attention problems eating breakfast, getting dressed, in all kinds of environments. It would be SO nice if the ADD stuff would just go away, but I see many attention issues in myself and I don't think at 42 years old I am about to outgrow them. Now all that being said, my kids are very gifted and they can and do concentrate on things for hours at a time, even without meds -some call this a "flow" state.

My mind is wandering now and I'm thinking about our family game night, so I will stop chattering...

I guess my questions is, if DS is enjoying school, getting excellent grades, scoring at DYS levels on ACT and SAT, not causing any disruption at school, adored by his teachers, no complaints from school, but frequently forgets things he needs at school or home and has trouble with organization, would we really need to seek a diagnosis? We already use many of the non-medication strategies at home for both DH and that automatically transfers DS.

One of the criteria is "There must be clear evidence of significant impairment in social, school, or work functioning." I just don't think we are there.