Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion When your child is rubbing an adult the wrong way

To my surprise, this post is about my DS7.

DS really has never gotten into trouble with a teacher or at camp in his life. (He was the kid who cleaned out the "Treasure box" in K and 1--I gave the teacher a lot of giftcards!) However, he seems to have a persistent problem at one after-school activity. I think there may be an issue with how the activity is run, but that's neither here nor there because DS really wants to continue it.

The adult in charge has spoken to us several times about DS's behavior being poor and even basically threatened to kick DS out. The behavior described is mild, TBH, but I think the real problem is that DS, like many gifted kids, is 1) a bit of a smart-aleck and 2) focused on accuracy. So, the supervisor might tell DS to "stop kicking the table" and DS would stop, but say "I wasn't kicking it. I accidentally hit it with my knee." (Note--he would not say this if it wasn't true, or most likely not.) DS also is a bit of a clown and this adult is quite serious and not one for "funny kids." An adult with a good handle on gifted kids should be able to handle all this, really (again, no one has ever had a problem with DS in any other setting), but that's not what the situation is and it isn't likely to change.

We have repeatedly explained to DS that many adults really dislike any kind of backtalk and are working on shutting it down at home (we have tendency to ignore it as long as the behavior stops). We've gone over what to do if other kids are getting wild and how to step away from that. We have even worked on a really old-school obedient style ("Yes, sir. I'm sorry. I won't do it again,"), but it's a hard transition for him. At this point, I think we are in real trouble because for whatever reason, this person is not a fan of DS.

Discontinuing is not an option. Any suggestions for us or DS?

Honestly, if ds can't get in line with the expectations of this adult, it might be a good lesson for him to be kicked out of the class. Have you been able to explain to him clearly what this adult expects from his behavior and what the end result will be if ds can't align himself with the expected behaviors?
It's a bummer situation to be in!

I'm not 100% sure exactly what the adult expects other than "be good" and "obey me." So, you've just given me an idea. Maybe we need to all sit down together and have a "meeting" so that DS gets it spelled out.

We have already told DS he may be kicked out. But...in actuality, there is a complexity there (they need him to compete) and I don't THINK he would be. Or...it would be stupid of them. I think it's an empty threat.

It's a tough situation but as daytripper says, the only possible outcome might indeed be to be kicked out. I would have to weigh what the lessons are there vs. pulling him out (despite his protesting) proactively.

The only other thing I can see is trying to teach your son about understanding/guessing what someone is really saying, vs. the exact phrase they use. For example, if the adult says "stop kicking with your knee," what are they really wanting you to stop? Making noise by hitting the table... etc.

This brings to mind the recent thread on Using exact vocabulary. It especially calls to mind the posts on the need for the child to "interpret" and to understand the degree of precision which is appropriate in the context of the situation.

"Empty threat" sounds so adversarial, like you're dismissing this guy's seemingly legitimate frustrations as a failure to understand gifted kids. Being gifted doesn't excuse a child from being respectful to someone (who may be volunteering his time?).

Honestly, from what you wrote, it sounds like your son is talking back and pushing the instructor's buttons, which is quite disrespectful. Your son may think that what he's doing is funny --- maybe this is a good opportunity to teach him that just because it's funny to him doesn't mean it isn't legitimately aggravating to the other person. This is a good social skill to learn.

Yes, kids will be kids and all. I get that. And your son is very young, and if the other kids are older, that's hard. Maybe he can start to learn to behave like big kids. I used to tell my kids, "Look around at the other people here. Are they making loud noises/acting hyper/whatever?"

Seven is old enough to know that arguing a detail to avoid responsibility for a larger bad behavior isn't okay, and that the appropriate answer when you're doing something that bothers someone who's there to help you is, "I'm sorry; it won't happen again."

I know I sound defensive of my son. There's a little more background here that I don't want to get into. Also, this adult is not actually the head of the activity but an assisting person, not that it really matters... Regardless of that--personally, I don't consider a little backtalk a reason to threaten to throw a kid out of a paid recreational activity, so that rubs me the wrong way. I would reserve that kind of discussion for serious repeated rule violation, violence towards other kids, etc.

But yeah, he is talking back, though he also stops the behavior. He is not pushing buttons (on purpose)--he doesn't know how to, except maybe with his sister. He's a pretty innocent dude. However, the instructor may THINK he is doing this. Which I agree, is a big problem. And we have talked to (ahem, yelled at) him about how he MUST be much more respectful and respond more quickly and appropriately. But I think what it is is, the adult is in a place where he seems to misinterpret DS and/or react more quickly to him. I've seen this before with kids and adults. You get in a groove where you see that kid's activity first and react first.

I also feel like this thread makes DS sound socially not with it, but the weird thing is, he is with it, generally....he's way faster to "get" what to do when we as parents are mad or irritated than his sister. He is quick to apologize at home and is the family peacemaker. The whole thing is kind of odd, really...

Oh, boy. EASIER said than done. Ever see that movie about Alan Turing..."When people talk to each other, they never say what they mean. They say something else and you're expected to just know what they mean."

Saying one thing and use a facial expression or body language to indicate you mean the exact opposite of your words is a classic example.

Sounds more like my son, however; he usually easily gets what others are saying or want, however his expressions are sometimes problematic. Meaning to be funny-sarcastic but not smiling (which only comes off as being rude). Has that been an issue for your ds before ? My ds does have a diagnosis of asperger's, which is I suppose where this stems from.

I agree with Val on this.

I honestly don't have enough of a read on the situation (from simply reading posts here) to know what's really up - but if you haven't already done this, I'd meet (without your ds) with the adult that's sending the reports home and with the supervising adult at this activity. Ask for them to describe what's going on - listen to what they both have to say. If only one talks, ask the other if that's what they've seen.

There are all sorts of angles could be happening here. For instance, some adults are simply more mellow about overlooking back-talk (you stated above that he does talk back at home sometimes and you ignore it) .That's a totally legitimate way of dealing with it, but it doesn't make the behavior acceptable. It's possible that your ds has acted this way with other adults and he's now getting called on it simply because he's run into a supervising adult with a low frustration level for it.

OTOH, it's also possible that your ds is acting entirely different around this particular adult than he does around other adults - and if he is, there may be a reason for it - maybe the adult is the problem. If that's the case, you might seriously need to consider pulling him from the activity if there isn't a way to avoid the adult. I may sound too cautious about that, but I have known kids who've been hurt (physically and emotionally) by adults who took advantage of power in a situation like this. I am not saying that's going on at all - just saying that if you're seeing atypical behavior in one situation with one adult - it could be the adult that's the issue.


Best wishes,

polarbear

I agree with Val that some aspects of the parent posts sound a bit adversarial. The most contentious point may be that the activity needs this particular child in order to be competitive and therefore it would be "stupid of them" to expel a child for back-talk and poor behavior. Some may say that there are more important experiences for seven-year-olds than winning, such as demonstrating teamwork and respect.

If an adult tends to see a particular child's activity first and react to that child first, it may be that the child is a leader or instigator who can quickly get others off-topic and/or disregarding the rules.

I'm sure the situation can be worked out for the benefit of all involved.