Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Camp disaster..need help salvaging the pieces.

I second the Cookie is brilliant comment! I think my DS would react similarly to a "contrived" leadership camp, even though he considers himself a leader because he has kind of a commanding personality.

Don't beat yourself up--it sounds like you were hoping to offer an opportunity for growth in a strength area and it was disappointing (for both you and your DD).

I'd be wondering: what was overwhelming? Was it overstimulating (too noisy, too chaotic)? Was DD upset because other children seemed to be more competent than she? Was somebody unkind or indifferent? Give her a little time to decompress and ask some questions about these things. Check in with her to see if she can identify any physiological reactions she experienced. I hate to keep pounding away with my "anxiety hammer" but it sounds like...anxiety.

FWIW, I'd have "rescued" too, since this is not a required activity and the only real lesson you'd be teaching (IMO) is that mom will throw you in the deep end to sink or swim. If she is prone to overwhelm/anxiety, I don't see a lot of good coming from that unless you've specifically, concretely communicated to her that this activity is necessary and you will help scaffold any lagging skills. No learning takes place if a child is so overwhelmed they go into fight/flight/freeze. I think she needed her adult and her adult showed up--that is also a good lesson, even if it's not the one you intended to teach.

I'm working through a lot of this sort of thing with my DS right now, trying to strike a balance between requiring some commitment to activities and understanding there are some major skill gaps. I think it's okay to take some time to reflect on what's most important for your DD's intellectual/social/emotional development and set some small goals, with scaffolding.

The problems she is having with this leadership camp sounds similar to the problems my son has with group projects in 6th-8th grade. He wasn't very flexible and had a hard time working with the other students. This was a huge issue for him in 6th grade. I had though the emphasis on group activities in DS's 6th grade class would be very good for him, turned into a disaster.

How old is your DD? Sound like early teens? For my DS16 (soon to be a H.S. junior) this type of issue has gotten a lot better as he has matured. DS's 7th grade teacher found that carefully selection who DS had to work with helped as well as a bit more adult supervision and direction.

From what it sounds like this camp is trying to have students learn these skills from working things out on their own not by giving specific direction. And while this works for many students, others like your daughter need a more direct approach. Doesn't seem like this camp is good fit for your DD, I wouldn't make her continue. It may just be the other kids she has to work with. Did she know anyone else there? Did many of the other kids all know each other already? The group dynamic can be really affected by the cliquishness of this age group.

I got better as my kids got older at choosing good activities but it doesn't always work out. I personally think it's easier to teach leadership if you are DOING things you already enjoy. I enrolled both my kids in good acting classes in junior high. Process over project classes, that were more about teaching real acting than putting on a play. My son is in marching band, it's very organized yet the students learn a lot of leadership. The older students are expected to mentor and help the freshman, take on leadership roles even if they aren't formal, and be a good example for the younger students. My son has gone to a sleep away camp for years and this summer took their CIT training. My older DD was in girl scouts and leadership is a very important part of that program. I suggest trying a group that is multi-age, where older kids/teen help younger ones.

Good Luck.

I also think this is brilliant. I was busy working on my own post but this is much better explanation than mine. My son would still to this day hate a contrived leadership camp like this.

I also think this is really important. I don't know enough about the actual curriculum of the camp to make any judgments, but if the whole concept is built on a process of letting the kids get their Lord of the Flies on (I'm exaggerating), I think that would be a non-starter for many, many (gifted and non-gifted) kids.

When I taught in a gifted program, there was one activity that a certain grade-level did every year--where they intentionally stressed the kids out of their minds and then discussed stress management. I never thought that was appropriate--kind of sadistic. But at least it was very short, not a "camp" situation.

I think throwing a bunch of kids (*especially!* who see themselves as leaders) together to problem solve without direct instruction is kind of a recipe for disaster. Middle school age is brutal enough with social dynamics, without encouraging this kind of survival of the fittest atmosphere.

It sounds like you have two issues - the first is what to do about camp, and the second is how to address the issues that have caused problems for our dd at camp. One thought that occurred to me, not knowing anything about the camp - what do you think the motivation behind most of the students attending is? Are the students there because they are the kids who are drawn to leadership roles... or is there a significantly sized group of students who are there because they are challenged with issues that prevent them from being a natural leader. If it's the latter situation, then sending your dd back to camp probably isn't going to accomplish anything in terms of her understanding the barriers that are leading her to be challenged with this aspect of leadership.

I do think you need to provide her ways to work through these challenges. If the camp is really good, really solid in how it's run, then I'd consider sending her back. OTOH, I think you'll need to do more beyond camp whether or not she goes back to camp. I would look for opportunities for your dd to participate in group activities where she's not in a leadership role, but where she can see another child take on that role and see how they adapt/etc to meet the needs of the group.

Best wishes,

polarbear

I think it was a combination of things. I don't think she felt like a valued member of the "team", I don't think it had anything to do with competency (if anything I think she thought she would be more competent at running it!), she complaining about it being too loud and chaotic, and just not a good fit for her. After having a great afternoon at home and a long talk with both parents I feel she actually made the decision that was best for her at the time. She wants to work on being able to remove herself from future situations in a more positive manner, as she realizes her behavior was not the best choice and did not give her a chance to recover without feeling embarrassed (her words not mine). Maybe we can all learn something from this...


Thanks - that helps, we feel like we make try to make the best decisions for our kids, but every now and then one wonders when being the rescuer does more harm than good. My hubby reminded me that she is only 12, and that rescuing is still OK :-)



Being a good parent really is all about balance...isn't it.

Well the camp was recommended by a friend, and was to be about building character, courage, team work and communication. I did not realize it was going to be "run" by high school/college students working on their own leadership skills vs. adults who mentor. Not sure if I knew that if it would have made me think twice or not about sending her. They wanted to provide modeling for young kids so they would be able to make good choices, unfortunately my dd saw nothing in her "leaders" that she would want to model, in fact, she was rather harsh in her assessment of their skills. I have no way of knowing if this assessment was deserved or not.

Again, what we have to take away from this is how WE act when we are faced with less than ideal situations. These things are going to pop up through life and she needs to find a way to be able to coexist.

That seems positive. It sounds like she is able to reflect and identify areas she could improve--when she's not overwhelmed.


Yup, 12 is young. It sounds like your conversation was productive--there is good in that, too. It doesn't have to be framed as "rescuing," anyhow. You could just think of it as picking up DD at a camp because she was unable to cope and you couldn't be sure it was a healthy environment for her in this stage of her development. At 12, I'd also be inclined to err on the side of caution. Kids have unique needs, no one-size-fits-all approach.

As an aside, my DD11 is in a Girl Scout troop that provides a lot of opportunities for developing relationship and leadership skills. Something like that might be a bit more organic. She's loved it and it has helped her become a social activist.

My first reaction was, "A leadership camp for kids, that's a thing?", followed immediately by, "That probably doesn't go well, does it?" Because I had an instant image of a group of five 12yos (every school teacher I ever had said middle-schoolers were the worst), all convinced they should be the leaders. So when Labmom said:


I thought, right, her and the rest of the group.

So I wouldn't think too hard on this specific situation. The pattern of behavior that this matches... maybe that needs more attention.

Put me in the column of parents here who support the notion that leadership skills are best developed organically. Unless some adult says explicitly that one child should be in charge (and that doesn't tend to go well, either, as handling authority is something many adults struggle to do well), children will naturally turn to a peer who seems to have the answers, or demonstrates success, or who steps up to provide whatever was lacking. Given their nature, our kids will be that kid in a lot of situations, so developing leadership skills in this case basically means putting them in group situations, and letting things happen.

This sounds just like what the leadership camp was attempting to do, but they self-sabotaged when they effectively told the kids, "COME BE IN CHARGE!!"

In fact if they aren't learned organically, they aren't learned at all. And I don't think this is an issue for kids only, or for leadership only.

This is why - at work - I want to poke my eyes out in order to avoid "career development" classes on mushy things like leadership, management, teamwork, mentoring, trust, women's issues and all the related Dilbert stuff. I have to do these "mandatory" classes all the time. I can honestly say I've never applied a single thing I "learned" in them. They are artificial, useless and profoundly irritating.

To the extent it's useful for your daughter - let her know that it's not just her!

Sue