Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Math progression questions

Interesting -- the new math core standards here move Algebra to 8th, Geometry 9th, Algebra II 10th (followed by Trig/Pre-Calc or other, 3 yrs required in HS) -- which is roughly a year ahead of the prior standards for my state (after accounting for shifting some topics). That seems odd considering didn't that work in your area, bluemagic.

I can't remember what the tracks were when I was in HS. I believe I had Advanced Algebra/Trig in 11th, and we didn't have Calculus at the school (had to get special permission and go to the nearby university for it). I took a life skills math class my last year just because I wanted to (I didn't need it), though someone (not sure who, counselor? I was averse to persuasion at that age) questioned it an asked if I was sure I didn't want to take something higher level (pre-Calc, maybe). Considering my college plans, I figured I wouldn't need it. In college, I took a logic class (loved it) and a computer programming class for my math credits, did great, but my heart was in other pursuits.

I think I understand better now, that if a kid is mathy and motivated, having the opportunity to accelerate to some degree and go deeper both have value, but not many negatives for a high-ability learner in the long run. I feel better about the approach I think we should take with the school for my two kids -- finding a balance between a faster pace and a deeper understanding, and needing a way to demonstrate growth (specifically not just individual work without support).

Actually, it is uncommon for students to take Pre-Algebra in 5th grade in our district as well although I believe that more kids could probably handle it if it were readily available. On the other hand, it is also possible that kids who are ready for Pre-Algebra in 5th may not all be ready for Pre-Calculus in 10th grade such that part of the restriction is to address future concerns. It would be fair to also point out that DD has had the benefits of a strong elementary math program, a parent with a math degree and a sibling who can readily rattle off an explanation if she ever gets stuck.

Of course, I do get your point and perhaps I am underestimating DD's math ability a little bit but not her "mathiness" as I have defined it because I am making a judgment based on her today with the understanding that she may change in the future. In fact, that is why I have insisted on her participation in a couple of the national math competitions and why she knows that she is expected to complete AP Calculus BC her senior year. We have had discussions and DD understands the importance of keeping her options open for college. At the same time, having had the opportunity to observe some of the very mathy kids on DS' competitive teams, I have to be realistic. While DD certainly has the ability to earn a degree in STEM and be a competent professional and perhaps even have some of these math geniuses report to her, she is unlikely to pioneer breakthroughs in math. By the way, that is not a put down of DD because she has some incredible abilities in other domains that may take her even farther. Like I said, if she does choose a STEM field, she will probably end up managing/supervising these technical genius types.

Point taken. I don't mean that DD has no math ability as she should be in the top 1%-2% (by grades & standardized test scores) in her class of almost 400 6th graders, only that she is not at the extreme right in ability or passion. DD has enough ability to do whatever she chooses but her chances of achieving the extraordinary is less likely to lie in the math area as in some other domains.

I do hesitate to blame bad teaching in general. It really isn't always the teacher's fault. Sometimes the kid just doesn't get it right away or doesn't bother to think about it and make connections. If a bunch of other kids understands and assimilates the material, then the teacher likely did a decent job. Perhaps it is the cautionary effects of having had twins who were in the same classes throughout elementary and still share some classes and/or teachers in middle school: Sometimes I would have had a complete misunderstanding of a particular teacher if I only had one kid or the other in the class. For example, I might have thought a particular teacher almost never gave homework (DS) or gave way too much homework (DD) at times. DS can squeeze in a ton of work in a short amount of time and does whereas DD sometimes re-does classwork and produces a way more elaborate job than the homework the teacher actually assigned.

Oh, well... I would not equate "mathy" (in my mind, perhaps top 1-2% for math ability) with "likely to pioneer breakthroughs in math"! (What would that be...top .000001%?) Gracious. No, she may not be at the level of the top kids on the math team, but she still might achieve great things in a STEM field--especially if she has great writing skills, which you say she does. (I read a lot of scientific papers...)

Also, remember, she does not have to achieve the extraordinary. Perhaps she could be extraordinary in one area, but will turn out to be more interested in something at which she is less extraordinary.

We are all prisoners of our presumptions! I am thinking maybe 99.99 percentile in math ability and passion (for math breakthrough, not pursuing STEM).

And I agree, she doesn't have to be extraordinary but it would be nice. It just seems that so far her passions tend to be in areas where she has greater talent.