Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Math progression questions

A friend of mine had a son who was part of a mathy cohort of kids who took algebra in 6th grade. Most of them finished Calc BC in 11th grade and then took stats in 12th. However, most of the kids chose to repeat some calc in college because they had forgotten things during their year off from calculus.

Yes, I meant that DD is not accelerated in the sense that Pre-Algebra in 6th and AP Calculus AB is the standard GT sequence in our district such that she has tons of classmates and no request/arrangement needed. In our district, AB and BC are distinct and consecutive courses so not interchangeable; BC also covers multi-variate calculus, which is probably beyond the juniors in our standard GT sequence.

By the way, I would not equal being able to handle Pre-Algebra in 5th with mathy. To me, interest/passion is an essential component of mathy; DD has none. Furthermore, a very smart kid could use their general intelligence to rapidly cover materials through Algebra I and perhaps be fine even Geometry or Algebra II, but will likely hit a wall somewhere beyond. I also see something similar going on in Science, where DD averages 97-99%(even in middle school where that is not common) and where her work products have been selected for competition or display despite her not particularly strong grasps of science. I have to sit down and explain deeper connections and sometimes even basic principles to her but she can generate top-notch multi-page lab reports - those exceptional writing & illustrating skills put her over the top.

Being able to handle pre-Algebra in 5th is indeed WAY above the norm for math. Even if in your district it's not that uncommon. Except for outright outliers no one takes pre-Algebra in my district till 6th.. and then about 10% of students take it.

I think you are underestimating your DD's math ability. This is easy to do when we are around a lot of people who are good at math. I think it's particularly easy to do with girls. I graduated with a degree in math & went on to work as a computer programmer for many years. In 5th grade none of my so called interests would have made anyone think I was going to take math in university.. I was not considered "mathy" in 5th grade and refused to do any math that was up and above the regular school work. Mostly I loved to read and be out-of-doors, but I did do very well in math without much effort. I ended up one of the few women in the honors math tracks at school. But I wouldn't never have dreamed in H.S. of joining chess club, or computer science club.

I would like to reiterate a point that was made earlier. It is very very important to keep your gifted child on the honors path in middle school. It's impossible in Common Core states to get off the standard Common Core path for two reasons, 1. Schools push back against it, and 2. It's a whole different methodology. It requires learning math using procedures the adults didn't learn and it's very theoretical and wordy. It's horrible for dyslexic kids who are brilliant at math. Children cannot jump back and forth between curriculums. Children basically have to pick their major in 6th grade, that is math/ science or non math / science degree.

Having to choose path in 6th grade is NOT a requirement for Common Core. It may be how many district are implementing common core but there is nothing in Common Core documents that require this. (At least in CA & MA.). I worked on a committee in my district and we specifically addressed the issue of allowing students to "switch" tracks at key points so that students who took junior high regular placement could still get to Calculus before the end of High School.

Second the terrible methodology is partly because most of the textbooks that call themselves Common Core are horrible. This is the TEXT BOOKS and the text book publishers fault. I'm not in love with Common Core but much of the terrible methodology is implementation problems. My district is going to struggle for a few years with their old textbooks but use them in a slightly different order and supplement with other material since they don't like ANY of the new books that are out.

Yes, I was trying to point out that this could be possible...also, if another child in the family has extreme math talent, or you do yourself, it's all too easy to consider another child with quite a bit of talent not "mathy." And as bluemagic points out, the long game is hard to see sometimes. This is part of why I feel uncertain about my DD. I may be underestimating her or not seeing the long game. Also, she has been at school with some 99.9 kids for sure.


Perhaps this is the fault of teaching.

I just checked and the math requirement for Texas (we have a common core of college classes that are transferable among all of the universities/junior colleges) is one 3 credit hour math class, college algebra or higher and one 3 credit hour math/reasoning course (many math classes meet this requirement as well as programming classes). I don't mean to derail the discussion, but it does occur to me that it is wise to consider which class your child will likely start out in college as result of their high school progression. Many schools seem to have placement tests for math classes now too, which is not something that I remember when I was in college 20 years ago.

I can't speak to five years ago, but that progression looks an awful lot like the normal experience *cough* years ago when I went through school in CA. Select students were placed on the accelerated math track in 7th grade Pre-Algebra, leading to 8th grade Algebra I, and so on. NT students did something else in 7th, did Pre-Algebra in 8th, and Algebra I in 9th, with the rest of the normal progression looking just like your chart.

That is correct above, as with Dude.
I've heard that CC tries to get more kids through Algebra and Geometry but it is bad for gifted kids since they can't accelerate easily. Here is what the "average" kid takes for CC math in our CA public schools.
8th grade- CC 2/3 (used to be Algebra I); now a mix of Algebra I and Geometry.
9th grade- CC 3 (used to be Geometry); now the rest of Algebra I and Geometry.
10th grade- Algebra II or whatever it is called now
11th grade- Pre-Calculus
12th grade- Calculus AB AP.

One more thing on CC. I live in a PARCC state, so the curriculum needs to align with the PARCC questions, which require the weird methodology and wordy trick questions. The math level is so low, I would have to advance my young son three years ahead to learn something new. My state has so many prescriptive requirements, it's impossible to complete the required curriculum and supplement beyond. The children don't even do speed drills. I have lobbied the legislature and districts, a lot. The common defense of CC by our legislators is that it ends tracking and closes the achievement gap. The schools are rated by how well they close the achievement gap, so they are motivated to keep bright students down.