Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Pre-school Underlying issue to investigate or normative?

Honestly don't have much more experience than you concerning this disorder but from what you describe, he seems to be a HG+ three year old meaning a whole load of wonderful and confusion to his parents! but then again I am no expert and if it's worrying you, I say go find the answer!

I have a similar tyke who just turned 3 who just underwent an evaluation because of his behaviour at daycare (Interacted with the teachers only if he actually needed something, no interest in other children because "they don't like numbers and learning about Mercury", obsessive play with water, extremely active and thus extremely exhausting but could stop in his tracks at the sound of any type of music and get lost in it, terribly defiant, clumsy walking, poor at drawing (although can draw a detailed man on command, eyebrows and all), no interest AT ALL in puzzles EVER and often lapsing into babytalk mixing French and English to the point they thought he was delayed (which was the polar opposite at home where his perfect use of grammar and vocabulary floors us much of the time). They used to say he fluttered like a butterfly from one activity to another, never really settling down etc etc the list goes on and on.

However, this is also the same kid who goes to three museums every week in one day because one wasn't enough (he started to go weekly at 18 months old at his request), going through each display totally hyperfocused and never missing a detail and has a scary memory. Has meltdowns if sounds are off-key or too loud to his taste. Obsessed with order yet can mess up a room in three seconds flat. Psychorigid to the point, that when we go for a walk my husband and I each have to take a specific place at his side otherwise he refuses to move. Doesn't give a rat's bottom if he gets reprimanded or punished but rather tries to deflect our anger by asking us immediately "are you angry?, nah don't be angry, it's not good to shout, shhhh, be happyyyy!" (it's totally infuriating btw )

We thought ADHD and/or autism spectrum. We worried and worried some more. We were saddened he never got invited on playdates or birthdays even though he had known these kids for most of his life. Adults loved him, kids thought he was not particularly pleasant to hang out with. He was an enigma and still is, so we decided to get him evaluated a second time (first was at 13 months upon our pediatrician's advice)

So he went through 4 sessions with a terrific psychiatrist and psychologist and we got this: most likely HG to PG but with no interpretable score on the WPSII (refused to answer the easier questions and kept rolling his eyes with boredom and staring to trash the eval room but perfectly scored on the more advanced ones beaming with pride)with Asperger-like traits due to his precocity but did not qualify for a autism spectrum diagnosis.

They also told us that ADHD diagnosis is most accurate at 5-6 years old but as his hyperactivity was linked to boredom more than constant, it was unlikely.

All of this to say, that getting an evaluation helped us relax and regroup and get support for our decisions. With the psychiatrist's ok, we took him out of daycare which he is super happy about and are now organising a support system in the new daycare we found and outside with a psychologist and ergotherapist. We are also moving in with my parents who have a lot of time to take care of him. We are less obsessed with trying to understand our little enigma's behaviour but more involved in trying things out on a day-to-day basis.Finally we can breathe a little even though lack of sleep still sucks. He told me he was happy for the first time last week.

So for us a psych eval, helped us help him better and certainly stress less. My advice would be if an eval will help you change his life for the better, go for it. Otherwise I'd say, continue to watch him closely and be the amazing mom you sound like you are.

Best regards,
Max's mom

aquinas - hugs, and your DS is lucky to have you as a parent. I think a HG+ DC at 3 can be perplexing, especially when they have any "extreme" personality traits or asynchrony. I remember being perplexed by my own DC (and I still am, at times). I cannot give you any answers, but you are such an attentive, caring parent!

Happy Mother's Day...enjoy your amazing DS and a glass of wine, too!

I think, first of all, that you are doing an amazing job in uncharted territory. This small human is not an easy one to raise, but your close observation will help a lot.

Second, the inconsistency between his abilities when watched vs. off-guard suggests it's not a physical issue (as Dude said). To me, especially given his age and the level of philosophical thought you've described before, it sounds like he's holding back in some areas to avoid independence and keep a close, age-appropriate relationship with his mommy. He may not truly believe you will still cuddle and read to him if he reads himself, for instance. He wants to keep a division-of-labor in his daily life that you do part of. He might worry that once he demonstrates an ability, he will have to do it perfectly all the time. He's able to understand the truth - that moving on from a toddler's independence level is a major change, and irreversible. That's going to be scary.

If I'm right, then these thoughts are having a significant life impact and are worth addressing. Mother's Day might be a perfect time to demonstrate that mothers stay in our lives for all our lives. Have a wonderful one!

I haven't read this whole thread but my thought about your DS is that he doesn't want to fail. So with reading, for instance, he does not want to risk trying and getting words wrong,so he's just not going to do it at all. DS was similar at that age. When I took him in for an IQ test (in his case we were investigating developmental delays), I was able to watch the test, and DS was randomly pointing at answers while smirking. He acted up and got silly/goofy. He was the same way at home whenever we asked him anything that resembled an academic question. Even if it was something simple that he should have no problem with, he shut down and refused to engage.

One thing that you could try with reading is to get him some audiobooks with the paper books to follow along, and just leave him alone with them. That's how DD learned to read. And of course, keep doing what you're doing and read to him as much as you want. When he is ready, he will probably just "take off" and read fluently with seemingly no effort.

DS has developmental coordination disorder and was able to walk up and down steps with alternating feet at age 3. This may be another thing where he is scared he might fail and doesn't want to try until he's sure of himself. At age 3 DS still scored in the average range for gross and fine motor but I knew something wasn't right because he was so deficient in terms of a few specific skills, like holding a pencil. He was able to write his name, albeit messily so he "passed" in terms of 3 year old skills, but then simply did not make much progress after that and rapidly fell down the percentile charts.

He would learn how to do things like skip (I think he was almost 5), but then forget. Now 3 years later, he still looks really awkward skipping. He looked really awkward doing a lot of things, but this "awkwardness" doesn't show up on standardized tests. The standardized tests for motor skills are not perfect, but you should probably get a motor skills assessment (for both fine and gross motor) and then get another one in about a year and make sure there is progress. The school did the Test of Gross Motor Development (or something like that) and the OT/PT always did the BOT2. The test that the school did was better at showing his issues.

Thanks so much, SAHM! Please expect a message in your inbox shortly. I've wanted to reply with equal thoughtfulness to your lovely, detailed message.

In fact, as a spoiler, your suggestions on several fronts were spot on. I'll stick to your comment about stairs below.

RE: alternating legs on stairs, you suggested that it might simply be an issue of lack of exposure to adult modeling, since children tend to walk slowly and adults match pace. That was exactly the issue! I consciously encouraged DS to alternate legs on the ascent over a few days and, PRESTO!, alternating legs on steps. He's still a bit tentative on the descent, but that will come with time.

Max's Mom, thanks for such kind, helpful words. I see many similarities between our boys, not the least of which is the delightful (and sometimes maddening) sneaky humour.

I will definitely be eager to hear how your little man's personality blossoms! He sounds like a card.


This made me laugh because, around 2.5, DS invented a game called "garbage dump" in which he collected everything in sight and piled it up inside a dishwasher box that we'd converted into a playhouse (he'd slip things through the doors and windows we'd made, then proudly tip over the house and show off his work.) One day, DH and I made the mistake of both making dinner for 10 minutes and, when we looked up, our living room and dining room had been completely trashed. Suffice it to say, the games on our ban list are: garbage dump and "Climbing Mount Mummy", in which DS unceremoniously scales my front using my ears, hair, and nostrils as finger and toeholds. (Yikes!)

My DD was so effing weird at 3. Does that help? I mean, that was an age at which I REALLY thought we were looking at a diagnosis. Some of her "stuff" was not dissimilar to what you descroibe, and these days none of that is really related to what concerns us. It's not known as a difficult age for nothing, and I think a lot of typical kids seem odd then. One of DD's friends who is now the most "normal" child you can imagine was virtually mute and seemed so terribly introverted at that point, with behaviors no one understood.

You probably will not like this advice, but it might be sort of instructive to get him into some group situations more often. You might get a better sense of what you are looking at, it's good to see what other adults see in his behvaior and how he does with other authority figures, and you could probably use a break.

Thanks so much, Loy58! There's a fine line between a caring, engaged parent and a hypochondriac, and I appreciate your very kind words and validation that confusion happens. What a lovely surprise to find on Mother's Day! Hope you and your family celebrated in style.

Aww, thanks!


I think you're spot on. DS has intuited that growing up in these areas is a bell that can't be un-rung, and he's holding onto our current roles while testing the waters of more independence secretly.

He's also keenly aware of mortality. Where most children seem to mentally tackle discrete chunks of time they see ahead in the future and proceed hunky dory, DS seems to be drinking in the entirety of the remainder of his life and anticipating events that will happen 15, 25, or 70 years down the line and his reactions through a 3-year-old's eyes. Yikes! We've talked about how much he will change between now and adulthood, and even in the next year. I've broken out a rough template of what "being 4" entails (spoiler: it's just 3, but with him fully toilet trained and occasionally doing more self-care) to demonstrate that change is an incremental process that only happens when he is ready.

We have a very close relationship, so I'm continuing to offer the comfort he's always sought (through nursing, cosleeping, lots of cuddles and silly free play, etc.) as an anchor to keep him grounded during all his internal development. If anything, I think I'm going to ratchet up our rough housing, sports, and silly play, because that connection helps him blow off steam and will continue to be age-appropriate pretty much indefinitely!

Haha! I guess we're all characters.


I'm not quite so aversive as you might think. I've been getting out and meeting a LOT of local groups and parents to find group activities where DS might enjoy meeting some new friends who share some of his interests. The challenge at this age is that so much of what is available is either infantile or top-down dictated.

I've found an open-ended, multi-age children's theater group for the fall in which DS would be one of the youngest participants. Given that he's the size of a 5 year old and tends to lead play, I am hopeful that he would enjoy creating imaginary worlds with 5-6 year olds. We've also started attending family open swim at a university, and it's giving DS an opportunity to play with some older children, which he enjoys. His preferred play partnership short of his parents, are boys in the 5-8 range.

I'm also exploring some multi-age sports clubs.

Most adults who meet him think he is a well-behaved 5 or 6 year old. And then he talks about something on his mind, like hematology or space elevators, and they don't know what to say.