Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Eval results - advice needed

We have been dealing with an adversarial school system and i'm not sure that I have any meaningful advice since I haven't gotten very far. I think what you may need to do is push for actual "written expression" services rather than just OT. Schools see "OT" as a related service that cannot stand by itself. I don't know how things differ in different states, but here ADHD would be classified under the "Other Health Disability" category for an IEP, if the ADHD is causing impaired educational performance compared to peers. This is where things get sticky. To me, it's completely obvious that my ADHD/gifted child has impaired educational performance becasue of the disability. There is a lot of incomplete work, she is excessively slow meaning she misses other things (for instance she may be sent out of class to do a computerized math test for 5 days in a row when other kids do it in 45 min and then go on with school as usual). Her written expression is affected because her executive functioning ability is impaired and she can't organize her thoughts on the paper. However, all the school could talk about were her good grades and her great standardized test scores. Never mind the fact that a fourth grade teacher isn't going to put an "F" on a child's silly stories that aren't written to grade level. There would be literally no way for her to fail. I looked through the State evaluation manuals for the two categories they were assessing (SLD and OHD) and there is nothing in there stating that she needs to be failing to qualify for services but the bottom line is that the district is trying to cut special ed from their budget and they don't want to give services to a gifted kid like DD who does great on reading/math standardized tests. They completely ignored everything negative that was in the evaluation report, claiming that she has a 504 plan that meets her needs (it was written before she was even evaluated). Maybe there are some schools that implement 504 plans properly, but in her school it was a joke. Nothing really changed after it was signed.

If you have a private evaluation that states that he has asperger's sydrome, there should be a special education classification for that. Here there is one specifically for autism spectrum, I believe. One thing you could do is to contact an advocacy group or even call the State Dept. of Education and ask if they can tell you how to access the eligibility criteria for each category, and how the category needs to be assessed in an eval to determine eligibility.

Keep in mind that they have to consider the results of any private evaluation that you have gotten. If they do their own eval and find him ineligible for an IEP or certain services that you think he needs, you can request an independent educational eval at the expense of the school district. I just wrote a letter to the special education director stating that I disagreed with the school eval and that I want them to pay for an IEE. They only have 2 options: Pay for it and give you a list of stipulations (like cost, qualifications of the evaluator, etc), of take it to due process in front of a hearing officer and show that their eval was appropriate. School districts almost always grant an IEE from what I've been told. Then you would have a third opinion if you want one, and you wouldn't have to pay for it. The school HAS to consider the results and if they disagree with the eval you can take them to due process. You can also go to due process after a school eval (since you basically already have an independent eval) and let a hearing officer decide about eligibility based on what you already have. Our state offers mediation as well,as something less extreme than due process, meaning someone from the state actually mediates an IEP meeting so that parents/school can reach some sort of compromise, although I've heard this is kind of a joke here and they are biased in favor of the schools.
Before doing any of that, though, I would talk to whoever was in charge of your child's eval at the school and say you think he should be evaluated and that you believe he should have an IEP. If they evaluate, and then tell you he just needs a 504, and you don't agree or get anywhere, contact the special ed director and outline your concerns. If one concern is writing, print out a copy of the language arts standards and point out where he is not at grade level. Find copies of eligibility checklists from your State and evaluation manuals for each category. Just because a child has passing grades and good test scores doesn't mean they can't qualify for an IEP.

-quote=mom2one=The OT administered a movement test battery for children -2, but said that he is functional, even though he appears not to have done well.[/quote]

I just had one more thought on the OT report - our ds' OT scores/report also indicated he had functional motor skills (actually not too far below average) - but if dysgraphia is the issue, the challenge isn't simply that specific motor skills aren't functional, dysgraphia is an issue with the connection between the brain directing fine motor action and the inability to develop automaticity in tasks. I had forgotten about it until just now, but I was really surprised when we got our initial OT report for our ds because it read as if everything was ok (low average on some motor tests, above average on others), then stated that he was "an excellent candidate for handwriting OT." Our report came from a private OT eval done after we already had a diagnosis of Disorder of Written Expression from a neuropsychologist (who recommended the OT eval). When we talked again to both the OT and neuropsychologist, they explained that the report looking "good" didn't mean that ds didn't have dysgraphia, it meant that his motor function was high enough that he could go through a course of handwriting OT and would benefit from it. He did have 9 months of handwriting OT and he did see a lot of benefit - his posture when writing improved, his pencil grip was corrected, he no longer held his wrist when writing and the pain he'd had before when handwriting went away. His handwriting was also much more legible after the OT. OTOH, some of those gains were short-term. The correct posture and grip stuck, but legibility didn't stick as much - his handwriting never did regress to the point it was at prior to OT, but it also never *progressed* - so he has handwriting (when he writes slowly and carefully) that today looks like the legible handwriting of a second grader (which is what it looked like after OT). When he does use handwriting he doesn't write slow, because he's only using it on short-answer questions during school and he doesn't have time to go slow and make it look neat - and it comes out relatively illegible, sometimes so messy he can't even read it. (Note - he doesn't actually use handwriting very often either, just here and there at school for short-answer questions or to make a short note.)


I'm sorry I get confused about which type of meeting is happening - is this considered an IEP eligibility meeting where the team decides whether or not to conduct an eligibility evaluation, or is this the follow-up meeting that takes place after the eligibility process where the team decides if your ds qualifies for an IEP? If it's the follow-up meeting, and you feel it's important to have the OT there, you can postpone the meeting until he/she is available (same goes for other team members). There is a requirement that the meeting take place within a certain time period, but you can waive that deadline if you need to in order to schedule a meeting where all interested parties are able to attend. You could also request it be delayed until you've had a chance to have a follow-up meeting with the OT - although I don't think you need to. But... my suggestion might change depending on which type of meeting it is.


That's great that you have a local resource for a parent advocate. Even though the advocate can't get to this first meeting, you can ask for advice that you can use in the meeting. This is what we did throughout our IEP process - our advocate wasn't able to attend the meetings, but her advice on what to ask for, how to ask it, etc was invaluable.


One other thing I remembered after answering previously - re your initial question asking if the school's eval results could be different from the neuropsychs - when our ds was diagnosed by the neurospych he wasn't given a "dysgraphia" diagnosis, but instead had a diagnosis of "Disorder of Written Coordination" (or something like that - a diagnosis from the DSM). He also had a diagnosis of Developmental Coordination Disorder. The neuropsych follow-up meeting was the first time we'd ever heard the word "disability" used with respect to our ds and also the first time we'd been told he wouldn't be able to use handwriting functionally... so we were a little shell-shocked. I went home, started googling away, and found all sorts of references to dysgraphia. I had so many questions after the first follow-up meeting that I had to schedule a second follow-up meeting with the neuropsych - and one of the questions I had was "Is this dysgraphia?". The neurospych said yes, but she doesn't refer to it as dysgraphia because the schools don't refer to it as dysgraphia. What was most important in her report from the school's perspective were the words outlining the impact of his inability to use handwriting and what accommodations he would need. DS' qualified for IEP services under "Specific Learning Disability - Written Expression". So sometimes it's not that the diagnosis is different, it's a matter of how it's referenced by different people.

polarbear

One other thought to add to blackat's - you might also run into teachers or SPED staff etc who don't believe it's possible to be both intellectually gifted and also have a disability. We ran into a few staff who had some very outdated and biased views re what SPED really is and about kids who need SPED services.

polarbear

We had one teacher state that DD would be better off getting interventions in the classroom for writing because those classroom teachers are the literacy experts, blah blah, and that special ed is more for behaviorally challenged students, not kids like DD. Ummm, if classroom interventions were going to be tried on DD it would have been nice if they had been done, say, three years ago? The classroom teachers have no clue what her issue is. They probably don't even know what "dysgraphia" or "executive functioning" are. They also don't have time to work with her for more than 1 minute, and unless they plan on pulling her into the hallway every time she needs to write and giving her a pep talk, because she's crying and refusing to write, and come up with a plan with her about what she's going to write about, their regular ed "interventions" are not going to be of much use. So yeah, this is the kind of nonsense people have been trying to dish out to me left and right, trying to convince me that an IEP is a bad idea and I should just let it go. They insist DD can do just fine without any special services, meanwhile no one does anything at all. They couldn't even bother themselves to initial her planner.

I wanted to provide an update.


Polarbear, yes, we are having this happen now. I don't think they think it is possible to be both, even though I provided various articles for them to read. I don't even know if they are reading it.


This is the follow-up meeting that takes place after the eligibility process where the team decides if he qualifies for an IEP.

The OT (and we did finally meet with her) did say she noticed some handwriting issues, and has suggested various accommodations. However, as far as the IEP is concerned, it looks like they will not give it to him. They did agree to a 504, but, sometimes I think the enforcement of a 504 will depend on the teacher he has. It is frustrating. We are having another meeting next week. My child continues to do well on tests etc, but does not always follow the rules in the classroom (by that, I mean, the teacher thinks he is challenging her anytime he tries to explain his point of view. Rather unfortunate). I have been following the other thread 'today's problem' very closely for ideas for my own child.

I will probably post all the accomodations we are asking for tomorrow.

Just completely frustrated with their inability to give an IEP, based on his functional behavior in the classroom (never mind tests etc). And, they seem convinced he has ADHD, and questioned the final diagnosis that the neuropsych has arrived at(the neuropsych has a wonderful reputation, and I believe that the tests she did was very thorough).

I'm in no position to advise anyone, since am even earlier in the whole process than you are, but wanted to offer support and a slew of random thoughts, in no particular order:

We just got a new pediatrician *today* because I'm aiming for some sort of coordination of treatment. Up until now, I've been a relatively low utilizer of resources (hardly even take kids to doctor!) bc they simply didn't seem warranted (epic fail). He is going to manage ADHD med and said he will refer for OT eval if ASD is diagnosed. I asked him about Speech/Language eval and he said unless there is a hearing loss, going through medical channel is probably not useful. I don't know if private OT works on handwriting issues. My son has two distinct sets of handwriting: his "real" writing--big, messy and his "medicated" writing--tiny, perfect, precise...sloooooooow. He loves to draw tiny things and I suspect he draws his good handwriting. His school OT observation noted he had good handwriting skills, no fine-motor deficit (except for "shaking hands." ugh) My point to this long-winded ramble is that maybe you can get private services if the school won't budge, via MD referral.

Another thought: what is the end game? Mine is to understand better and keep son in current placement (I think) because I don't see him faring any better an a different school--and he can be removed from this program if grades aren't good.

My friend with the two (very very very) 2E sons (both PG and LD, but different diagnoses completely) told me she actually *prefers* 504 because it provides accommodations, while IEP doesn't. She, however, has a lot more personal resources at her disposal than I and can afford to pay for whatever services her children need.

If I could craft the perfect 504 for my son, it would be pretty straightforward, typical ADHD/EF type stuff: preferential seating, cueing, communication with teachers, extra time to turn in assignments, use of technology to aid in organization...most of which is already in 504.

I'd also add a few things like: don't be a jerk to my child, remember he isn't purposefully annoying you, don't apply academic consequences to behavioral issues, don't yell at him, don't be sarcastic...but I'm pretty sure they won't allow these (but they should, because evidently these aren't obvious).

I'm looking forward to seeing what you request via 504. I get the feeling our districts approach these things similarly. The bottom line, I was told, is that any services only have to get DS to baseline (functional) and he's already there. Supposedly. I am glad I have a boatload of nasty emails this year so I can prove his behaviors are having negative impact on education. Do you have anything like that?

Just so you know for yourself, this is incorrect. An IEP can and usually does include accommodations as well as specialized instruction.

"No academic consequences for behavioral issues" sounds like a perfectly appropriate accommodation to put in a 504 to me, although you might have better luck treating it like spelling for a dysgraphic kid - "No reducing grades for behavior unless the assignment/assessment is specifically intended to teach/assess behavior." And it may not change teacher behavior, but I don't see anything wrong with saying "DS does not respond well to raised voices" and "DS does not understand sarcasm," either.

I'm glad to know that isn't correct, since it doesn't make any sense. Actually, come to think of it, my SPED teacher friend said the same thing! I'm beginning to think our district miscommunicates. A lot.

And I'm saving that line "No reducing grades for behavior unless the assignment/assessment is specifically intended to teach/assess behavior."

YES!

We have in the past used a Behavior Intervention Plan to specify how teachers should respond to what they viewed as problem behaviors. That form literally allows you to describe problem situations and specify the correct response to those situations-- what may or may not be done.

It doesn't solve all the problems, but it is useful for everyone to agree on the boundaries and strategies far in advance of the inevitable incidents.

This is my list I plan to ask for:

Social skills classes: be a part of the pull-out for social skills. Allow for a limited number of sessions with the school psychologist. (I don't know they will give this)

Behavior form : Details such as whether work got completed, whether a warning or timeout was given, with reasons. Should come home daily.

Short conference with the student at end of day: Go over the behavior form, emphasize expectations on a daily basis.

Organization: Allow him to have bins that have all the necessary things he uses. Label these bins (for example, worksheets , books etc).

Organization techniques: Short conference with the student twice every week (Wednesday & Friday) to make sure that he has all the things he needs, and that he is not shoving papers into the desk, and that everything is accounted for.

Provide a list of things he must have and have him mark it off.
This should happen every week (on Friday), so he is ready when Monday begins.

Pack-up checklist: Print out the packup checklist every day, and have him mark it off, so he has all the things he should have.

Distraction: If he is not attending to work for more than 4 minutes, remind him once to start the work. Work initiation is, perhaps, one of the hardest things for him when there is a lot of visual stimuli. Give him one more minute, after the reminder, and then help him get started on the work in a more hands-on manner.

Once he starts, he usually finishes by using his techniques for moving on.

Sometimes, he may miss specific instructions. Allow him to ask the teacher. He seems to not clearly understand instructions if he is just asked to ask his classmates.

Be very specific and literal, and ask him if he has checked in while giving instructions.

Placement of written work on paper: Mark with a green dot the place where he is expected to start writing.
Provide paper or space that is of the right size for him to write on. Example: journal paper, so he is forced to keep the handwriting reasonably sized.

Provide a slant board for all writing tasks.

Provide a quiet place for him to work, with little to no visual distractions.

Break longer assignments (such as a packet of work that has more than 3 pages) into manageable chunks.

Pair written instructions with oral instructions.

Provide challenge words for spelling tests.

Provide challenge work for math. Even if this cannot be done daily, provide it to him every once in 2 days. This can be as simple as getting a Grade 4 or Grade 5 worksheet and having him work on the problems.

Provide silent reading time for close to 30 minutes.

Limit homework to 45 minutes every night. Allow him to turn in typed work.

Allow him to complete the mandatory online reading program on the weekends.

Provide graph paper for math, especially for carry-over problems.

Provide reassurances and encouragement vs. correction and criticism at a rate of 4:1

Provide direct instruction during handwriting practice. Review sizing of the letters when he is doing the work.

Tolerate inconsistent performance.

Make time to talk alone with him.

Provide theraband for the legs of the chair. Or, provide a chair where he can sit comfortably with feet touching the ground.

What do you all think ? Feedback appreciated.