Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional New to forum, 2E son

Hi all, I'm the mother of three gifted kids, at least two of whom are 2e. In process of getting deeper w my 12 year old son who is currently in FT gifted program, 6th grade, he's suddenly hit the wall. Current dx is ADHD w anxiety but indicators of developmental issues and going to get neuropsych eval by doc w expertise in 2e.

I've asked twice for Spec Ed eval and been refused twice bc test scores and grades were high. Middle school has been nightmare so far. I haven't heard a single nice thing all year. Very poor executive functioning, lacks self awareness, doesn't read social cues and has no ability to "play the game."

Teachers have not followed (simple) 504 and seem to range from defensive/combative...to inexperienced/ineffective.

Just received word that OT has met w teachers and some interventions are planned --I was unaware he'd been screened and have no idea what the findings are.

He was supposed to be evaluated for motor and sensory issues. Waiting with bated breath to find out what's going on.

Neuropsych is looking for spectrum disorder, NLD, EFD, etc. I don't think it's autism but it's *something.*

Was so happy to find this forum. This has been the most painful year yet. Ironically, I have gifted master's and used to teach in this program. Unfortunately, that's worth less than nothing when it comes to figuring out my own child.

Hi, Eco--


I think that's a good plan. Gathering more information can be so helpful.


You might want to type the word "functional" into the search box at wrightslaw.com. Federal law protects children with disabilities-- not only those with academic challenges, but also those with functional challenges, which can run the gamut from social participation, to self-control, to executive functioning, to pragmatic language, to handwriting, to toileting or buttoning pants.

If your child's deficits in functional skills impact his ability to be successful at school, he is absolutely entitled to a full evaluation, regardless of his academic skills. The information at Wrightslaw may help you make that case-- it did for us.


I'm so sorry. Sometimes it is harder for them to understand the challenges of a 2E than a "regular disabled child." Because "if he's so smart why can't he just." It can be so hard to get people to see the gifts and challenges clearly-- the neuropsych report should add data and clinical observations into the conversation and (hopefully) help bring these things into focus for the school.


They are allowed to start services for some time under RtI (Response to Intervention)-- trying things they think might work and seeing if anything helps. The good news is this means they see that there are problems...


Sometimes it takes a lot of experts to give you the pieces to put together. You'll figure him out.

Welcome.

Thank you so much. I am really having a difficult day...week...month...year. I really hoped this program would help him have a better educational experience. It is 40 students from around our city, selected from all the identified gifted kids.

He just told me I am going to be "getting a phone call" bc in science, they were cutting cardboard with Exacto knives and he "jokingly" held his up in a menacing gesture toward a classmate. I haven't received a call but what in the world do I say to that? A) I can't imagine a teacher allowing a bunch of unsupervised 12-year-olds to use Exacto knives but B) particularly my son who is impulsive and has identified behavioral issues (not like this, though, just usually talking too much, blurting out, and not turning in work). He said the administrator told him that "depending on how the phone call went," there may or may not be more disciplinary consequences. I don't even know what that means.

His program is a "choice program" and one of my friends who is a Special Ed processor told me that the process is different in this type of situation. IOW, he is not *entitled* to be in this program, so the regular rules don't apply.

There really isn't a great placement for him. I've considered putting him in our assigned school but his academic skills are advanced. It's the behaviors that are the issue. It's like he is an 8-year-old socially/emotionally but he talks like a (smart) 18-year-old and in adult company, he seems perfectly well-adjusted, if precocious.

Put him in a room with his age-mates (who are all highly gifted--so I don't doubt he really stands out) and he fails to assimilate. I can't believe how sad all of this makes me, and confused, and angry. All at once.

Welcome!

I'm not sure what to suggest, but your school district sounds like ours. Ours would have never initiated or agreed to any assessments or interventions, though.

If you put a written request in for a comprehensive evaluation, they have to do it, and if they refuse, they are supposed to send you a prior written notice. You can then take action, such as going to due process/a hearing. With a school district like this it may be better to get your own eval if you can afford it and present it to the school, because if the school does not WANT to do an eval and you have to force them, you can almost guarantee that they will find him ineligible and blame all of his problems on you. I had tried to get my own eval of DD but the evaluator I chose turned out to be as idiotic as the school and could not understand 2e or her issues. So it was a waste of time and I couldn't even give the report to the school, because even though the test results showed large discrepancies indicating a LD, the report said she was fine. I FINALLY found someone who seems to get it.

Welcome

Argh.

Another thing to type into the search box at Wrightslaw: "Manifestation Determination." If an unwanted behavior comes as a result of a disability, there are some legal protections. It helps to know them in these situations.

We have often negotiated with our school to craft consequences that result in maximal learning for our child-- that is, not gratuitous punishment, but social learning through making mistakes.

The other thing is that while your DS may not have a "right" to be in this program, he cannot legally be excluded from the program on grounds of his disability alone.

This is an excellent resource... has come in handy for us many times. http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/letters/colleague-20071226.html

This document, from the US Department of Education, advises that:


That means if their standards are biased against people with disabilities, they are inappropriate and can be challenged.


That's... "normal 2E" in our experience. I know it's hard. Try to treasure him in his complexity, while easing his interface with the world where possible. The problems are not with him, they're with the interface.

Hang in there!

Welcome and Hugs.. You are not alone here. My DS16 had a major problems in a pullout gifted program in 6th grade. Major anxiety problems and altogether a terrible year. I chalk at lot of it up to teacher who expected a higher executive function out of DS than he was ready for. (Gifted and High Achiving kids were thrown together.) And the beginning on puberty that has multiple issues from hormones running amok to the craziness that is the social skills even of the average 6th grader.

Stupidly I didn't get him 'tested' until last summer after his freshman year of H.S. He did much better at junior high in 7th & 8th and then began to have problem in a full honors load at H.S. Neuropsych really wanted to label him with ASD but it doesn't really fit, and finally gave up with a "some characteristics of autism" on his report as well as a LD, anxiety disorder and depression.

Good luck and getting your DS the accommodations he needs. In 6th grade we didn't get an official 504 but I got him private therapy for the anxiety and eventually put him in a social skills group. Academically we just backed off, reassuring him that school the next year would be a lot different. Wish I had worked a bit harder on his language processing/essay writing issues.

He has a 504 for OHI (ADHD) and the district coordinator ordered OT eval at last meeting--I think largely bc she must have noticed that the teacher's (one in particular, I'll nickname her The Bully)agenda seemed to be to REMOVE each of his accommodations. Each time The Bully spoke up (wanting to remove extra day for incomplete work, even though ALL the students are allowed to turn in late work, for instance), 504 Coordinator said NOPE, that is standard for ADHD. And then 504 Coordinator ADDED things (which made me happy, I was feeling outnumbered) that I would never have considered asking for. One of the *many* things The Bully complained about is that my son has trouble handling his Trapper Keeper--and bumped things on her desk. Also, he is very physically slow and it takes him forever to get his things out of his backpack and vice versa. So the counselor said--"maybe a motor delay?" And I said, I haven't considered that but he is very slow. Before I knew it, 504 Coordinator was ordering OT eval to screen for motor/sensory issues, telling me even if they can't provide services, it would give me a better picture.

The Bully was visibly annoyed by all of this. Small victory.

I have asked (and been refused) for SPED eval twice since third grade when his then-counselor told me she observed in classroom and he seems to be in "his own little world." I have had Asperger's in the back of my mind since then but just based on DSM criteria, it didn't really seem to fit.

I inhaled the OASIS Guide in the last 24 hours and am seeing my child in it--looks to me like this is a much more nuanced diagnosis that I recognized.

Met with neuropsychologist today. Some of her questions were not what I was expecting and came away feeling pretty overwhelmed (onaccounta--he evidently really does have some pretty significant indicators). She sent home parent rating scales for:

ABAS II
BASC-2
BRIEF

She herself used to teach in this program, and was so informative, patient, and user-friendly that I'm glad I took this direction. Even though it is costing a small fortune, out-of-network, that I can't afford.

I love my son exactly how he is and my mantra is: "Just let DS be DS" because I see the beauty in his brutal honesty, guileless, open-faced personality, and warmth, love and affection toward his family, friends, and pets. One of the most difficult things yet was when we brought him into a team meeting at his school this year, and he looked like a defended, skittish stray dog. I saw then what his teachers see and understand why they don't like him...but I didn't even recognize that child and it broke my heart.

Thank you so much, Dee Dee and bluemagic. I don't have the hang of how the posting thing works yet or I would quote you. It helps so much to have somebody to commiserate with.