Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Eval results - advice needed

My son's school has received and accepted the private eval results, and are only doing those tests that the neuropsych/we have requested for. The school did state that they need to do their own evaluation, and only then offer services through an IEP (if he qualifies). Otherwise, they will just offer him a 504.

Our IEP meeting is soon coming up. I was wondering if it is possible that the school's eval results can be different from the neuropsych's eval results. For example, the school seems to think my DS has ADHD, while the neuropsych has indicated he has Aspergers and is gifted. The school also seems to think his social skills are fine, just that he's somewhat inconsistent with applying those skills (I have specifically asked for this service; the neuropsych's report also indicates the need for this service).

It looks very likely that the school may just offer him a 504. I am just not sure that this will be enough. My child's report cards (as far as academic grades are concerned) are pretty good, even though he is 2e, and this is brought up as an example that he does not need support. My belief (and my understanding from talking to my child) is that the report cards are good because he already knows all the material. Writing, by far, is his weakest area, but he seems to be doing his best (his writing ideas are good, handwriting/organization of those ideas need a lot of improvement), and his teacher thinks he is fine.

How do you navigate this -- the school thinks he's doing well academically, but lacks consistency in social skills. Yet, all they can offer is a 504. My child usually does really well with evaluators, unless he is ill or something. My question is: is a 504 enough ?

Advice, suggestions appreciated.

Yes, it is possible for the school to come to a different diagnostic conclusion. They are looking at him through the lens of the school environment, while the NP most likely saw him in isolation, often from a hospital perspective. Context can be very important to interpretation. This does not necessarily mean that either formulation is wholly incorrect.

What is the primary service you are seeking? Social skills? If so, yes, that can be provided through a 504 (though some schools don't realize that). Actually, it can be provided through general ed, through a Curriculum Accommodation plan, or without any kind of plan at all (and has been, in several schools I've worked in in the past), especially if it's in the form of a social skills group (best, for transfer and generalization).

Thanks, aeh. That helps, and I will bring this up when we meet with the school.

I am primarily looking at getting services for social skills, pragmatic speech (basically, consistent reciprocity of speech), and occupational therapy (for helping with visual motor integration). I am just not sure that all of this will be possible with a 504.

Mom2one, based on that list, I would want an IEP. Yes, some schools will provide services without the IEP, but most will not. The IEP is a much stronger tool if you want remediation (not just "access to education").

If you want to be specific about the kinds of needs you see, we can talk about how they might be addressed in the school setting.

If you need both speech and OT, then yes, you would be pursuing an IEP. Social skills training alone doesn't require an IEP, but the others would.

Is the school doing it's own OT and SLP evals?

You've received excellent advice above mom2one. I have just a few extra thoughts for you re advocating at school.

* While the school may come up with a different diagnosis or different perception of impact on academics and need for remediation/accommodations/support... chances are good that if you have meaningful test results (as in, your child didn't just zone out and not answer questions on something or he wasn't purposely being defiant during a test).. the testing that you've had done privately, combined with the testing the school does, combined with "data" in the form of classwork, homework, behavioral challenges etc all are consistently adding up to the same story - they are just possibly looking at different pieces of the full puzzle. So when you are advocating, the important thing is to know all you can about how your child is impacted in academics and social situations at school (and in homework), have a good idea of what services and supports you feel he needs, and understand the "data" you have (tests, classwork, evaluation reports etc) that demonstrate the need clearly.

* I don't know how your school district works, but in my school district there were two large potential "gotchas" when advocating for an IEP that it's important to be aware of (in the event they are happening in your school district). The first is an existing set of guidelines for qualifying. The decision to qualify a student for an IEP should be made by a team (should include teacher(s), parents, SPED staff rep, OT/SLP/etc as meaningfully needed), and the "guidelines" are simply meant to be guidelines... however those guidelines can also be presented to parents as absolutes. It's important to know what those guidelines are, whether or not your ds qualifies under those guidelines, and if he doesn't, know what data you have that you can use in place of them to show that he needs services.

* This may not be true in your school or district, but there are some schools/districts that will try purposefully to not qualify a student for an IEP - the reason can be anything from not budget issues, staffing challenges, to not wanting to deal with it. If you find yourself in that situation, don't let comments thrown at you to deter you to... deter you. Stay calm, press forward, repeat repeat repeat what your child needs, what data demonstrates the needs, follow the process, and ignore the noise.

* When you hear comments such as "he's got good grades" or "he's got good test scores" - thrown out to imply that therefore he doesn't need any services - stick to presenting the data that shows that he *does* need services. It helps to have a perspective of what each type of data shows too. For example, my ds could not, for the life of him, write in response to an open-ended prompt when he was in elementary school, yet he scored "advanced proficiency" on state testing in writing. The gotcha was the state test didn't include any questions that called on that skill. Grades typically include averages of many different types of skills, so having good grades doesn't necessarily indicate that there isn't a significant challenge with one specific skill.

* If you have a local (or state) group that provides advocacy advice (parent navigators) they can be an excellent resource to ask these types of questions. I relied on our state group quite a bit when I was advocating for (successfully) an IEP for my ds in elementary school. For all the great advice you can get online, nothing beats being able to talk to an advocate who has knowledge of your local school system - because they can often tell you exactly what words to use that will work, what has been proven to not work, and possibly give you advice on working with specific schools/school staff.

* Since your ds' school staff has considered ADHD to be the issue in the past, if you find they are still throwing that out as a diagnosis when you meet again, I'd suggest a few things to mention. First and foremost, if the school questions the private evaluation diagnosis, simply ask in return if the school is questioning the diagnosis of a locally respected, highly respected, board certified (whatever applies) professional. Second, let the school know that there are symptoms that are shared in common between ADHD and ASD, but how you approach accommodating/remediating/etc may be different based on understanding the actual diagnosis. Lastly, if the school is adamant that they see ADHD when your private professional sees ASD, you can choose to either try to work through a reasonable set of accommodations/services/etc regardless of diagnosis, or you can request an independent evaluation at the school district's expense. In reality, I suspect that the school won't argue with the private professional's report as long as you stand firm that you accept it and respect the professional who put it together. They may question it, but politely reject the questioning and move on.

* It's common practice for a school to do their own evaluation prior to agreeing to an IEP, so don't let the school insisting on this worry you or cause you to agree to a 504 without first requesting an IEP eligibility review. When you fill out the IEP eval request, be sure to request OT and SLP evals as part of the process, as well as the TOWL (Test of Written Language) or an equivalent test.

Gotta run - hope that makes sense!

polarbear

Thanks, everyone. I have been reading (and re-reading the responses).

The OT administered a movement test battery for children -2, but said that he is functional, even though he appears not to have done well. She actually states this "demonstrates sensory seeking behaviors that may inhibit his ability to access the curriculum". It goes onto state that he does not need OT.
This has me puzzled. Shouldn't the school be providing services, especially when the OT says something like this in the report ?

Regardless of who is testing him, he displays very poor handwriting, that is simply not getting better with more & more practice. He writes fat letters/numbers -- again, everyone references this, but says that services are not needed. I will question why, but I was wondering if this is normal (for them to see a problem, but decide it is not severe enough ?)

Do you know the name of the movement battery test? (Just curious).


Your school district most likely has a set guideline re how "low" a student needs to score on a set of specific tests or diagnostic measures to determine if they qualify for OT services (same goes for other types of services and remediation). It's really helpful to know what that guideline is - you can try to find out the information by either looking online for your school district's SPED policy handbook, or you could try calling and asking for it through your school district's central SPED administrative office, or you could ask a SPED staff rep at your school. If you can find a local parent advocate or disability assistance group they might also be able to get the info to you easily.


This was "normal" in our ds' elementary school - because the school didn't want to provide services for students who needed them. It's really important to keep focused on what your ds needs for *life* skills and be aware of what is a reasonable argument from your school vs a roadblock being put up by the school - and it's not always easy to tell the roadblock from reason. Two things helped us tremendously when our ds was in early elementary and early in the journey of understanding his 2nd e:

1) Complete and thorough testing. We weren't able to get this through our school district - you've actually gotten much more testing through your school district already than we were able to. The thing that I think was missing from your testing earlier this year was testing to determine if the low processing speed scores were due to fine motor vs visual processing issues. Has your ds had further testing? Were you able to get more details on his Beery test? (In an earlier post you had the average score but not the specific breakdown of fine motor vs visual integration scores). If the Beery shows a deficit in fine motor, there are additional tests that can help quantify whether or not your ds has fine-motor dysgraphia. If the Beery shows a visual processing issue, an eval by a developmental optometrist might be helpful. The key is - you know your ds has unusually large awkward handwriting. You know he had a large discrepancy in processing speed scores on the WISC (unless I've confused your ds with someone else's ds - and if I have, please just ignore me lol!). Those are both red flags for dysgraphia, whether or not anyone from the school is insisting everything is "fine".

Second thing that was enormously helpful to us - having that local parent advocate that I mentioned above (I think I mentioned it - if I didn't, ask :)). Our parent advocate was the person who was able to let us know - it was the school stalling on us when we were seeking an IEP, and ds' specific school had a history of not wanting to provide services. I could have read advice on online forums all day and night for years and never really had it sink in that our school was stonewalling us (even though other online folks were quick to point it out without having any local knowledge). Having that local resource with that type of information was incredibly helpful. Our parent advocate also gave us a lot of the terminology and assists with how to approach advocacy based on what we were facing from our specific school (and personalities at the school) which helped us advocate successfully. If there's any chance you have a similar resource near you, I'd look into it and ask these same questions there.

Best wishes,

polarbear

ps - another thought - re:


Be sure the OT who wrote the report is present at the team meeting. If he/she isn't going to be there, request that the meeting be rescheduled so he/she can attend. Ask the OT this question at the meeting. Don't ask "shouldn't the school be providing services" but turn it into something stated matter-of-factly such as "The report states that ds demonstrates sensory seeking behaviors that may inhibit his ability to access the curriculum. How specifically do you see the behaviors inhibiting his ability to access the curriculum?" Then use that answer to restate "DS is exhibiting ....(fill in the blank) behaviors. These behaviors impact him in the classroom by (fill in the blank). How will those behaviors be addressed such that ds is receiving full access to the curriculum?" (or something like that).

I found when advocating that if you just keep calmly restating factual information you'll get the school staff to agree to obvious things that they should legally be agreeing to. They can't argue something that they've found and reported, but they can definitely write up reports in such a way that as a parent you'd look at it and think, ok, he doesn't qualify.

Another thing that might come out of that - the OT might feel that he doesn't need an actual OT pull-out, but there might be sensory accommodations that would help. You can research accommodations yourself prior to the meeting, things such as sitting on a ball instead of a chair, squishy seat cushions (don't know the technical name), chew erasers, whatever might be a sensory tool/accommodation that might help your ds. To be honest, I'd find it a bit of shooting in the dark to try to figure those things out *without* the help of an OT. My older dd had a lot of what looked like sensory issues as a young child - which we later realized were due to severe vision issues... but fwiw she went through private sensory OT and a lot of what the OT worked on with us was how to accommodate her sensory challenges in the classroom, which meant (for her), listening therapy, headphones, squishy seat cushion, wearing a tight leo under her clothes. Things I *never* would have been able to figure out on my own that worked really well. DD's school also eventually set up a sensory "break" room (SPED OT's office) that students could go to when they needed a break and could swing/etc.

And I'm rambling now but just made the connection, fwiw, and it might be totally meaningless - dd had handwriting that looked very "dysgraphic" when she was in K-2nd grade. She also had low scores on symbol search and one other WISC subtest, and she had the appearance of having sensory seeking behaviors in a large enough way we were taking her to OT for it. In the end, it all turned out to be related to a visual challenge.

polarbear

Huge thank you, polarbear.

polarbear, I have scheduled a follow-up meeting with the OT. She will not be there in the initial meeting. I will follow your line of questioning.


Also, yes, on the parent advocate. I am thinking that we need help if we are unable to get anywhere in the initial meeting. It is more logistics, than anything else, that we are not able to get a parent advocate for the initial meeting. Sometimes I think it is okay, but certain other times, panic sets in.

Also, I don't know the name of the movement test, but I will find out.


No, you are right -- you haven't confused my DS with someone else's. I was looking over the reports again, and I find that the neuropsych, and OT's remarks match a lot. At some point,I will go back to the neuropsych and furnish the OT's test results (it was one of my things to do). I, unfortuanately, did not get any more information on the Beery test.