Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Hard time following directions

My DS5 is in Kindergarten. Early entrance. Just had the conference with his teacher.

She was commenting on the fact that he does not seem to understand directions very well. Simple tasks he turns into something completely different and does them incorrectly.
A brief background:

1. He was tested at 3 1/2 because we wanted to rule out SPD and a couple of other concerns. They came to the conclusion he is gifted and definitely leaning toward being Visual Spatial. What level gifted we don't know. He maxed out many sections on the test, but missed some on the way. Very uneven. Age related they said. (His 7 yo brother is PG)

2. His way of thinking is VERY unique. He does not seem to have the "regular, straight forward" way of thinking. Very reflective, observant. Thinks "out of the box". Highly abstract.

3. Questions everything. Picking things I say apart, challenging what I say. Asks a million questions if we are to do something new. "What about if...? What happens if...?" Seems to need the big picture to feel OK, otherwise gets anxious.

4. THRIVES on highly challenging, complex ideas. HATES doing easy tasks. Is not afraid of difficult tasks. Gets careless when things are too easy.

Honestly, I know what she is talking about. I see it too. Sometimes he appears....how do I say this..."not very bright", since he can not finish simple tasks his class mates do with ease.Then he turns around a finishes a 3rd grade math sheet (which I bring in) with ease. (This fact the teacher NEVER comments on, but that is another issue...:-/)

I am wondering what this could be? Does anyone have experience with this? Could it be a learning disability, processing issue?

The thing is though, he does grasp much harder concepts with ease and seem to have no problem listening to the instructions. He seems very uneven with what he picks up and doesn't. Also, he was reading (by sight, no phonetic reading) before 3 years of age, but couldn't tell be what a triangle was until he was 4. Seems he gets "stuck" on certain things. Things that he should be able to know and do.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

(((Hugs))), because I know how hard it is to worry about your DC. Have you ruled out auditory processing issues? Some of the behaviors also sound like HG++.

your #3 and #4 are exactly similar to DS7. He was not challenged in K (even with home made work packets at the appropriate level). And I started volunteering as a teaching aide on 1 day a week (when I could go in late to work) to just be there in the class and do some stimulating activities with him as well as to observe him. What I saw was that my DS was not paying attention to anything because it was all unchallenging to him. So, it was hard for him to follow directions because he was not listening to the teacher at all - he was busy observing other kids, interacting with the kid sitting next to him, trying to sharpen his pencil, fiddling with things etc. etc. In our case, we changed schools and the behavior is vastly different now.

And the teacher in K did not care if my DS could finish 5th grade math and LA worksheets - all she said was that a child incapable of neat handwriting would not be accelerated because he had not met the milestones of K learning (neat coloring and writing in this case). So, she never remarked on his academic abilities, because she considered my son "not ready" developmentally for anything other than tracing letters and counting and adding single digits. That year, I used to think sometimes that my son was in a sort of prison with recess being his only breaks (overly dramatic of me, I am sure!).

The fact that your DS grasps harder concepts is a sign that when he pays attention (if things interest him) he can follow along easily. I would strongly suggest that you have your son tested again for giftedness using the WISC (common in our area - I am guessing that maybe he is PG too and is bored) and then decide on how to get challenging work for him in the classroom. Good luck.

Loy58, I was considering and auditory processing issue, but looking at the signs it doesn't fit him. I am also doubting it because he CAN follow instructions if it is something that interests him. I think I will have it checked out though, just in case. It was mentioned when DS7 was tested on the WISC last summer, he might have a mild case of it. (Clearly compensating, but still).I think I will just check them both to rule it out.

Ashley, thank you for your story. The teacher this year doesn't seem to even know about true giftedness. She comes from the "they all even out in 3rd grade" line of thought. I feel it would be talking to a brick wall trying to get her to understand this. Again, not sure what level my son is. He is very different from my older PG son so I have nothing to compare it to.

She did say back in October that he seems to "over think" everything and expect there to be more to it than it is. I would agree with this in many situations. I asked him myself why, sometimes, he doesn't do what the teacher asks. His response was "It is too easy. They do, what is bigger and smaller, and things like that. I just want to think about math."
So I guess that is part of the answer. When I told his teacher this it didn't seem to click with her. She didn't pay much attention to it. Seems she completely want to downplay that anything might have to do with a higher intellectual ability...ugh....sounds familiar?

Next year he will be with the teacher who saved my older sons life, pretty much. She got him to a place where he is happy, advocated for him. My issue is, my older is a textbook PG kid in every area. Math, spelling, reading, writing, information etc. etc. It was hard enough to get him accommodated. I don't want my younger son's inability to follow directions be an arguing point for the school. Especially if it is all due to him not being stimulated enough, OR the fact that he thinks so much more complicated.

I wonder if there is any kind of learning disability that would look like his profile? How about low processing speed? I guess a WISC would show that. But he still has almost 1 year to go before he can take it.

Not sure if his processing is low or if it's just that he reflects on everything, while my older goes at the speed of light.

Thank you for your input and for sharing your experiences.

One of my sibs deliberately did not follow directions in K, to relieve mind-numbing boredom.

I've also seen some highly-conceptual children have odd gaps in rote memory tasks, like learning the names of things (colors, shapes) and people. Note that learning the name of a triangle around age 4 is entirely normal. That's not a conceptual task. Was he able to sort shapes, or place them in form puzzles, at an earlier age? (Which would indicate that he understood the shape of a triangle conceptually, and it's visual-spatial characteristics, even if he didn't know the arbitrary label we use for it.)

If you think it could be a focus issue, it might be ADHD. A lot of people think that if a kid with ADHD can focus on certain things, it's not ADHD, but that's not the case. DD could read well before kindergarten and was very focused with reading, or doing things like jigsaw puzzles, but other things, like drawing a picture or coloring--it didn't happen very often. Kids with ADHD are able to focus or hyperfocus on things that are interesting to them but have problems staying on task with simpler or more boring things (or things that they find too hard). She's also very "visual spatial".
If he's 5 he is probably too young to diagnose but it's something to watch in the next couple years. DD looked similar to her peers in K (and was therefore grade accelerated) but she looked unfocused in first and second grade compared to peers. There is a lot of change between kindergarten and first or second grade. "Normal" kids grow out of their focus issues, and ADHD kids do not.

In terms of the "triangle" example, I'm not really sure what to think of that, esp. if he could read. Both of my kids could name all the shapes at age 1.5 or 2. I think DS's first words were actually names of shapes, rather than "kitty" or "cookie"

Most of your description could easily be used to describe my DS. He did the WISC at 6.5 and had subtest scores all over the place ranging from 99.6%ile down to 2%ile. He was labeled gifted with a probable LD in processing speed. His working memory was also low by comparison.

He's now almost 9 and we're retesting next week to confirm the LD so he can qualify for AT (a laptop). In our case he struggles with writing. He wasn't an early reader and was considered behind until this year. Now things seem to have clicked and he's reading above grade. Math and science have always been his strengths. Most of his million daily questions were science related and we read a lot of non-fiction. DH and I are both engineers so he's exposed to more science than your average kid. He's currently accelerated a year in math which is NEVER done in our board. It isn't enough but it took 2 years of advocating to get anything and it is a slight improvement.

Anyway, not sure if any of that helps but figured I'd share since so much of your description seemed to match. I'm sure I'll be posting once we finish testing and get whatever new labels they think fit.

Aeh , yes, he was able to put shapes together with ease. Seeing the patterns and placing the triangle the right way long before actually being sure of its name. Also around 4 he stared doing " Q-Bits" which is highly visual. I also remember at age 3 when I woold ask him about shapes he responded "Stop bothering me with details." It seems sometimes things are just not important to him so he doesn't bother with it.

Blackcat , I am not sure I would call it a focus issue. I don't know what exactly is happening in school, but at home he pays attention but just seem to overthink, and complicate things. He will ask lots of questions before answering, trying to cover every possible detail, "But this is...", "That makes no sense...", "You mean this or this...". I try to tell him to just answer the question, but there is usually not just a simple answer for him. There are always a bunch of different angles.

Things at school seem to be similar, but she also showed me work samples where he had drawn in the box he was supposed to write and vice versa. Another sample was he was supposed to circle 4 groups of 5 shoes and then count the groups by 5. He counted each shoe by 5 and ended up with 100 the it was supposed to be 25.

Chay, I will be curious to hear what the testing reveals. I am thinking my DS's processing might be low once he tests. But again, he just reflects so much. When he is reading he has to stop at each page and look at the pictures first, sometimes pointing out details I never even thought of. He is also much into predicting things by looking at pictures. He has done this since he was 2. So obviously this looks like he is slow at processing. He just sits there with his eyes fixed on the page, soaking it all in. This is also a kid, who at age 2 cried and refused to wear a pair of camoflauge pajamas because " It looks like people who are crying." And at age 2 looking at a painting of a deer in our house asking slightly irritated " Why is that deer looking at me like that?"

It will be interesting to see what the testing tells us once we can do it. I am considering doing an achievement test for now. I am thinking they might be able to pick up some signs from that about possible issues. I just really wish I had more to go on heading into 1st grade.

There is a problem that my brain has and always has had: I daydream almost continuously, and often can not really be bothered by the real world. Or, more accurately it is difficult for me to check in with the real world even for a short time if the real world is boring. As an adult I deal with this problem better, but as a child people used to say I wasn't present. Of course at times I would check in with the real world and do things that others could not do... Ie I was great at taking tests, but horrible at doing assignments. Another consideration is that I considered this 'work' I was doing in my daydream as both exciting and important.


Another problem my brain has is the need to over error check. Let's come up with a simple Venn diagram logic problem to show what I mean. Say space A is entirely inside of space B and lets say that space C does not at any point overlap space B. One part of my brain sees one of the obvious conclusions that no part of space C and space A overlaps, however there is another part of my brain that objects to that conclusion and keeps requiring me to supply additional proof. What is more is this proof nagging voice is never completely satisfied with any proof provided.

So you can imagine how much time ends up being wasted trying to revisit the basic premise that 1+1 really does equal 2 and why. Now this deep exploration does provide insights that many do not ever reach because they simply took 1+1 = 2 at face value, but it does tend to slow down performance.

And, yes people have my whole life said I over think things.

He sounds just like my DS10 He used to draw all over his math sheets and rip the edges... whine, complain, kick the chair legs, etc etc. Then they'd get sent home and the torture continued, until I'd make a deal with him: "Do these questions for Madame and then I will give you something better." He'd comply then I'd give him questions at a higher grade level and he'd fly through them.

It Is 2Day - that sounds like "maladaptive day dreaming" and both my son and I are guilty of it too - so much so that the school requested we have him tested for absence seizures (EEG came back normal).

1111 - I wish I had suggestions but all I can say is that it does get easier (my son's KG year was hell) as they get older and are more capable and willing to pay attention to the connection between their behaviors and the outcomes. Just hang in there, keep advocating, and give him harder work at home (if the school won't) so that he doesn't lose interest completely.