Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Differences between public and private schools

This is a powerful and important point. But it has multiple implications. Many here are using it in an "ewwww - they have to take everybody way." I'm exaggerating a bit. But really - that's the point.

For DS7, there's a flip side to "everyone." Notwithstanding the challenge presented by his extreme asynchrony - they have to take him. Speaking frankly, he'd probably be asked to leave many private schools with a "we can't meet his needs" explanation. And they're right - they probably can't. They could also try a little harder. But why - when they have a waiting list of easier kids they could bring in instead.

But in public school - they're effectively stuck with DS. And I work my ever-lovin' backside off for the school, to help them help him. Volunteering, supporting the school, backing up the teacher. Yes - there are awful folks in the system. But awesome ones as well. But I scramble every day to get the good ones on my son's team. I'm just constantly trying to find a path of least resistance/best resources to help them do well what they are stuck with doing anyway - having my DS in the school.

It has not been smooth. Last year was a nightmare. But all my legwork paid off with a great teacher assignment this year. And things have been much better. Next year - fingers crossed. But the good news is that the principal is now a friend, and definitely "on the team." I still have a seizure every time I see the school's caller ID on my phone. But I can't deny that he is growing and learning this year, and is generally happy, and learning to function in the challenge that is our diverse and goofy and sometimes unfair world.

Again, you're painting all the schools with a brush that's way too broad. I live in NorCal, too. There are literally DOZENS of private schools where I am, and you simply can't claim that they'll take easy rich kids over quirky ones in the blink of an eye. Respectfully, that is a bad attitude itself and shows a failure to explore the question in depth.

I've had too much experience with different private schools here becuase of schools moving, forcing us to find new ones. I've visited umpteen schools and have friends with kids at private schools my kids haven't attended. The prep schools tend to pile on the homework, as Dude pointed out. The kids I know from those schools don't act entitled; rather, they're stressed and busy. Yes, there are some uber-wealthy people here (say. >0.1%-ers) and some self-entitled types, but their kids are a tiny minority of the school population. Plus, some go to public schools. I knew a guy who was in that category. His child went to a PUBLIC school and the kid felt poor because of the conspicuous consumption by other kids at that school. So entitlement doesn't just reside in private schools.

Between them, my three kids have attended four private schools with one closure and two moves, and not one of them had the outlook you describe. There are many small private schools around here that work with quirky kids like mine. There are 2E kids and ND kids with disabilities at these schools and the non-uber-wealthy parents are thrilled.

Can we PLEASE try to look at the nuances of a situation rather than making broad generalizations? Isn't this what we want schools to do with our gifted kids? If we won't think carefully, why should we expect the schools to?

Obviously, not all private schools are the same just as not all public schools are the same. It doesn't do much good to speak about them as if they are uniform. The biggest problem I see with private schools (aside from the 80% of them which involve religious indoctrination), is how they tend to siphon off children and parents who do care about education and would likely improve the public schools by being involved. Private schools have also enabled people of means to push for reduced taxes and funding of public schools without being concerned that it will have a direct negative impact on their children.

While individual private schools can be wonderful and highly beneficial for individual kids, I think there is sufficient data to show that on a macro scale, they're bad for society. If every parent who sent their kid to a private school used the extra commuting time and money spent on tuition to make their public schools better via advocacy and donations, I think it's likely that the public school situation would improve significantly.

NZ doesn't have a lot of private schools. We used to but there was a deal made that the church schools were absorbed into the public sector as 'special character schools'. This means they have the same teachers and curriculum as other state (the state as in the country) schools with add ons. Where I am there is a private intermediate (years 7/8) and a steiner(waldorf) primary about an hour away. Our schools do sound more pleasant than a lot I read about on these boards but they have many of the same problems on a smaller scale and I think the differences are due to size and location rather than absense of private options. My children do not appear to find school unpleasant but they don't learn much either.

What specifically are the rich kids saying or doing that the schools ought to address?

Sorry, can't agree with you. I live in the Silicon Valley and send my child to a private school and there is no elitism at all. Instead my DS has met peers for the first time there. There are parents we know who hold 2 jobs so that they could send their child to private schools on their monthly salaries. The parents are a mixed bag (very rich to middle class). But, there is no sense of entitlement and schools focus a lot on character building. And the kids are really hard working from what I see and do not spend time talking about their butlers or their designer backpacks. Parents are focused on academic excellence and a lot of the kids participate in academic competitions and take up music studies, competitive sports etc after school which keeps them very busy. Just my experience from sending my child to a private school as well as attending open houses or shadowing days at every single private school within a 10 mile radius of my home.

You know - reading the above responses - I see that my impression is ill-informed on a local basis. I am willing to retract my comments about elitism etc. I'll just stick with being happy that my public school is working hard to help my son!

I apologize if I ruffled feathers with badly reasoned thoughts.

Sue

The major differentiator between private and public schools, IMO, is that privates, as businesses, have inherent flexibility that can't be matched by larger scale, bureaucratic organizations. That allows them to be (at least theoretically) more responsive to the client. The lack of a unionized teaching workforce gives the parents greater bargaining power in the school, which results in an experience that can (absent terrible management) be better tailored to the students' needs.

Well-run private schools adopt an efficiency wage model, whereby teachers are paid a premium in gross compensation over their public sector counterparts. This aligns the incentives of the teaching staff and the administrators, creates a disincentive for deficient teaching and mentorship, and mitigates agency problems present in public schools.

So, really, it's a situation that uses economic incentives to align the interests of parents and teachers around a common goal. With a double-sided positive self-selection bias, teachers and students are positioned more collaboratively in private schools simply by dint of a common purpose.

As a current private school teacher (at an elite private academy... my third in the last 12 years) with 20 years of classroom experience...

I'd never send my kids to private school. Ever.

I know that things look very different from outside the classroom, but having seen how the sausage gets made, my family is going the public school route all the way. I have noted in the past the only three good reasons I've ever heard to go to private school are:

1) ideology, generally religious ideology, because a school's "educational philosophy" is never shared by the majority of the teachers, regardless of what it is (and many won't even be clear on what it is),
2) networking with other families who have particular skills, interests, and connections that you want to cultivate, or
3) a genuine fear that your local public school would be a specific threat of some kind to your child.

I see your point, but I'd argue that this concern is an administrative concern, and a sign that your past principals were unqualified, ineffective, or both on the business side of the equation. Educators are educators, administrators are administrators. Too many private schools are run by educators, only, when both business and education credentials are needed.

I have three remedies to your concern, assuming someone with relevant business training is at the helm of administrative decisions:

1. Pay teachers more, so that the cost of not adhering to the school teaching ethos (being fired) is painful and the reward of staying is strongly appealing.

2. Conduct multi-stage interviews culminating in an evaluation center simulation to tease out how teachers act in challenging situations. These are expensive but so worthwhile if choosing the right talent is valued by management.

3. Set SMART goals with specific outputs tied to the school philosophy in the employment contract, with transparent measurement and action.

And a bonus strategy: spike the staff room Kool-Aid. Just kidding!