Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Aspergers?, ADHD? and gifted?

I agree. In our case, we never "excused" anything. I read lots of books, and used a lot of 'strategies'. She received an IEP (based on ADHD diagnosis) and support and services at school. A lot of people have worked really hard (especially me!) to help her; it's just impossible to know what would have happened otherwise.

There are two things that we chose not do:
1. Pay out of pocket for any assessments or services.
2. Put her on any medications.

I'm not saying that these are bad; I know that many people have gotten good results from private consultations and/or medication. I'm only sharing my personal experience.

Another vote for the functional approach, all the way. Being HG+ means you are not neurotypical, period, but the ways you are atypical may sometimes add up to an ASD diagnosis and sometimes not. (There is also the theory that there are gifted/ADHD/ASD traits which are all part of some much broader autistic spectrum than is currently believed, you may want to check out "bright not broken".)
Personally, it him it is the theory of mind-blindness that should be the ultimate test, not a collection of traits, and I do not think that parents should be forced to push for a premature, possibly inaccurate diagnosis simply to get their children services that schools or insurance might otherwise be unwilling to provide even though the functional impairment is clearly there.
However, I think kitkat24 has written an excellent post that shows how sometimes it is really the degree to which traits are present and impair functioning should drive the diagnostic/therapeutic process. It's not black and white - from her pits, I can gauge exactly in retrospect why in the event, even though almost all of those traits were there in DS case, they were not there "enough", kWIM? For instance, I remember thinking o my god when he sat down in front of the washer,staring at the spin cycle. But he did that exactly once, and so it did not count as a red flag in the end

I definitely agree with this, of course.

I don't think of DD's challenges as related to giftedness at this point. The main problems now are managing everyday emotions--not gifted-related. Now, she is emotionally intense in a typically gifted way--upset by things like war, death, etc-- but I actually separate that from her overreactivity to everyday issues. It lends clarity that DS is also emotionally intense in that way but NOT overreactive to normal life issues. I can see the difference now.

That makes a lot of sense, given my family history and SO's. No one has gotten diagnosed with ASD but no one is really all that NT either. I see this outside my family too. I am working with a boy who is crazy advanced visually (he is 5 but functioning more like an advanced 8 year old - he is fascinating) but his older sib has ADHD.


In US, theoretically, it should be possible for schools to provide services based on functional needs but in practice, at least in my experiences, things don't move quickly unless there is a diagnosis. If I thought my DD needed services, I would rather go through our insurance so we can choose providers.

Years ago when I was trying to decide if I wanted to allow the school to test my DD for LD's this was what went through my mind. For 1st & 2nd grade the school was correctly providing extra help to ANY kid that was slow to learn to read. But budgets were getting cut and I was worried that the money would dry up to help her if I didn't get formal documentation. In addition the extra aids the school hired to just help everyone struggling were only around for the lower elementary. Knowing I could get her the help she needed ended up trumping my worry about labeling my daughter when it seemed premature. Glad I did get her tested and she needed help into H.S.

I agree it shouldn't be used to excuse behavior. But it can be used to UNDERSTAND said behavior and know how best to react to it. I had people who told me the best thing to do with my son who was having anxiety attacks, was to just be more 'strict' and if I just punished my child more he would behave better. In the long run, helping him learn how to deal with his anxiety helped the behavior better. (My son was melting down and screaming in the middle of class in a gifted 6th grade classroom.) Getting him help, putting in practices in the classroom such as a quite place he could go to calm down helped, and a teacher who could recognize the situation before it got bad. And I'm glad that although I had other issues with DS's elementary school & principal they were willing to understand this difference.

I just caught up on this thread and saw some additional comments. I just wanted to clarify a few things. Autism is not a disease. There are symptoms, but they are mostly a loosely connected laundry list of associated behaviors, and not used as diagnostic criteria. They have been assembled to help parents, teachers and other non-experts identify children to facilitate diagnosis. Diagnostic criteria include several hallmarks of the disorder, such as: lack of empathy, lack of theory of mind, limited or no eye to eye gaze during conversation, flat affect, limited or lack of social emotional reciprocity, inability to sustain conversation, use of stereotyped language, echolalia or repetitive language, restricted patterns of interest, adherence to routines and rituals, repetitive motor mannerisms, and impairments to social skills, communication, or imaginative play prior to 3 years old. Not all autistic children have the same behaviors/symptoms. However, for a diagnosis of autism, the child would need to have a majority of these symptoms to some degree.

No parent can accurately identify these traits in their child. It takes years of experience. This is why pediatricians and schools should not be performing diagnostic testing for autism. It takes a trained eye to discern "quirky" from disordered. A PG child can have some neuroatypical symptoms, but not have met any diagnostic criteria for autism. Neuroatypical does not equal autism! Further, you absolutely can diagnose a child with autism before the age of 8 with a high degree of accuracy. Waiting to get a diagnosis for your child until they are “older” will just make improving some of the more rigid behaviors associated with autism more difficult. I cannot stress this enough. Children with autism do not outgrow it. You can with time, reduce dysfunctional behaviors with therapy, but they will always be there to some degree.

I agree with what others have said that you shouldn’t excuse behavior that is abnormal in a gifted child and dismiss it as “gifted” behavior. DD10’s gifted teacher filled out all her diagnostic questionnaires in the normal range. Everyone else that completed diagnostic paperwork put her firmly in the autistic camp. Trust me, you don’t want someone like this involved in the diagnostic process for your child. I actually had my daughter’s 4th grade teacher try to dismiss some of DD10’s autistic behaviors as “hormonal changes” (a.k.a PMS) in her IEP meeting. I have never wanted to strangle anyone as much as I did that woman in that moment. People’s ability to marginalize or hand wave autism symptoms away can be ridiculous at times.

I think this was in response to my earlier comment so I wanted to make a clarification. With my earlier comment, I meant to address the OP's case specifically but re-reading it now, I can see that I didn't make myself clear at all.

I have not met the OP's DS so of course, it is a pure speculation on my part but he seems to have a cluster of symptoms that overlap across several developmental disorders. On top of it, he is only 4. I'd like to believe that with enough interventions, support, and time, he would be doing much better by the time he is 8.

That is all what I meant by it and I definitely did not mean to imply that I want parents to withhold treatments from their children.

I agree completely.
And same here, during this past year, we have been through all of the assessment as far as ASD and SPD. Our DS is 4 in two months so the doctors felt that ADHD isn't something to look at yet. We have a regular child psychologist but our insurance doesn't allow them to do cognitive testing. Our local school district is doing that in a few weeks.

I really, really feel for you. I have days when all I want is an answer. All I want is some direction, some hope.

Oh yes. It has taken a lot of explaining to our families. I think what you said should be said to them. Your son can hear that and may internalize his family's words.

Basically, our son has been babysat for an hour maybe twice by grandparents. One of his grandfathers yelled at him at 2.5 and I told my husband that I no longer trusted him to take care of our son. So our son has completely supervised visits with family. I have told everyone that he has extreme anxiety and that he is not having a "tantrum" he is having a "meltdown". Our families are coming around but I have cried to them many times to please understand. I know that they still have their judgements but they are trying. When he was a baby, my mom was convinced I was doing something to make him scream at every single diaper change of his entire infant life. Looking back, how ridiculous that any of us thought it was something we were doing. Clearly, this child is sensory sensitive. He hates new places, new people, new anything and so everytime someone visits, he struggles to control himself.
We do time outs for hitting, we have a lot of side talks with him if he needs support, we take him to his room for some quiet time and spend time with him reading if the visit is too much for him. I think my family hears me saying things like, "Pushing is not OK", "Please use a quiet voice", etc. So they do think I am doing "something" but I know on the ride home they say that we are too easy on him, that he behaves like that because....etc. My mom always tells me I should spank him. !!! Ya, so that's what I'm dealing with.