Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion What is giftedness?

I'm not fussed at all, we all have a need.

I agree very much with these ideas.

On the one hand, this forum is titled "gifted issues," not "HG+ issues." On the other hand, the Davidson Institute serves HG+ kids. As far as I'm aware, there really isn't another place on the web that focuses on the educational needs of HG+ kids, though there are a variety of organizations that serve mildly and moderately gifted kids.

Inclusiveness seems like a nice idea. I wouldn't say that a public forum should only allow certain people. At the same time, a very common complaint here is that when a gifted program or a class aimed initially at gifted students becomes too inclusive, the population it was meant to serve doesn't get served anymore.

If I understood the OP correctly, the writer annoyed some people because she didn't define giftedness inclusively enough. That's a (very common) reaction to a trait a child was born with. To me, it's why I think that HG+ kids and their parents deserve ONE PLACE that focuses on extreme outliers without having to feel obligated to include everyone so as not to make anyone feel left out.

It's like...it's okay to be rude to HG+ people ("you must have hothoused him/you are so pompous for bragging about your kid's high IQ/etc.), but it's not okay to say, "Okay then, I'll find a HG+ sandbox to play in" because suddenly that sandbox becomes a hotbed of elitism and pomposity.

I am NOT saying that this attitude prevails here. I'm saying that too much inclusiveness can start off like a wonderful idea and end up sidelining the people a program was originally designed to benefit.

While I agree that this can be a problem, I think that these forums are somewhat protected by the fact that DITD Young Scholars program is not going to become more inclusive - they are 145+, no exceptions. So I think that these forums will continue to draw a higher-IQ population than other "gifted" venues.

FWIW - It appears from the FAQ responses, that the Davidson folks specifically anticipate that this forum will support both PG kids/parents as well as gifted kids (and their parents) who are not PG. Here is the response to the question of whether DYS admission is possible for those who don't make their cut-off criteria:

As we strive to serve the extreme of the gifted population, the scores listed on our website are considered to be the minimum in terms of eligibility requirements. . . . Many very bright students may not meet our qualification criteria for this program, but are likely to benefit from the information and free resources that the Davidson Institute makes available to the public via our websites, including . . . . the public Gifted Issues discussion forum. . . .

And anyway - the folks on this board are so uniformly kind and supportive, that I can't imagine them rejecting anybody who reaches out for help.

So - welcome!

Sue

FYI, I am not referring to this group. I am talking about a group in my area with the name "highly gifted" in its title.

Sorry for the rant. I don't have problem with a variety of levels of giftedness in gifted groups, even mildly gifted kids in highly gifted groups. I do have a problem with parents calling them gifted when they're not. I especially can't stand them calling their child "profoundly gifted" when they've never been tested or when they've tested as average. Why not just say " I think little Timmy is gifted"? Why does it have to be "little Timmy is PG"? Why specifically profoundly? The only time I see this, it's PG. I never see someone say that their child is highly gifted (when they're not) KWIM?

Possibly these parents believe it gives them more credibility, a louder voice?

and The vibe of a forum changes based on participants. On one hand, it may be comfortable but ultimately unhelpful to have an insular bubble of agreeable yes-men, on the other hand parents may wish to be aware that some may be drawn to gifted forums in effort to cut down tall poppies and force equal outcomes for all.

I use to care about this a lot. I think it comes from feeling like your kid isn't getting the help he/she needs to flourish.

However, I've realized that there are kids who are in the top 10% and are struggling in their schools because they aren't getting what they need either. So, they feel the frustration too. I know a lot of 125ish IQ kids who are bored in class and their parents are frustrated.

When I hear, "oh my kid or grandkid is so smart" I think, they probably are. I consider PG or HG just to be an entirely different ballgame that isn't even comprehensible except by a few.

I welcome any opportunity to safely (ie, semi anonymously) take the issue up with those people. They say anyone short of PG isn't really gifted, so there should be no accommodations. I say, well then, accommodate my kid and the others like them, and since you insist they're not just 12 months ahead, make the accommodations fit that. They say all gifted kids drop out of college anyway, and I can say yes, they do, ever wonder why that is? Because they have not ever in their lives been asked to do something difficult or uncomfortable. Why is a kid with a higher IQ worth less than any other kid? Why do they deserve to get thrown by the wayside when everyone else gets taught how to strive and fail, and strive and succeed?

While ultimately I agree with the final question you pose, I'm not following parts of your post and have three follow-up questions. Possibly there is confusion over definitions.

1) Who is "they"... who says that anyone short of profoundly gifted is not really gifted? There are many articles and webpages which discuss the normal distribution curve for IQ and levels of gifted (LOG). Many have termed moderately gifted as optimally gifted, and profoundly gifted as outliers beyond the scope of many gifted programs and services.

2) No accommodations? The word "accommodations" has a specific meaning in education and advocacy, which is typically: agreed-upon supports to address the needs of learning disabilities or learning differences for children with an IEP or 504. Gifted kids can also have an LD, and then are termed twice-exceptional or 2e, and may receive accommodations. In this context, possibly you do not mean accommodations but rather differentiation in curriculum, instruction, and pacing, especially when you say "they're not just 12 months ahead".

3) Do you have a source to share, that informs this view? A research paper, article, book, thread/post, etc?

Unfortunately, gifted kids spend much of their school years doing what is difficult or uncomfortable:
- waiting for others
- tutoring other kids
- being ignored, invalidated, or undermined
- watching others receiving attention, encouragement, support, validation, and affirmation
- teaching themselves (often they may receive higher level worksheets without instruction.

However they may lack:
- appropriate academic challenge at their zone of proximal development (ZPD),
- intellectual peers.

Agreed. This is the quintessential question. Some may envy them, some do not trust them because they do not follow the typical development for their chronological age and may be highly internally motivated (less responsive to external rewards), others may fear them because they find them to be eerily "scary smart". Some IRBs may find it justifiable to place these children in a control group while attempting to grow the intellect of other children, specifically for comparison to see if equal outcomes can be achieved.

Some people like me are very into trying to make a self consistent reality. When we hear something like "My child is PG!" then later hear "My child only scored average on an IQ test, but the test was obviously wrong"; it causes something similar to pain in our brain. I have discovered that not all people require a high level of self consistency. When I meet somebody who does not have my required level of consistency, now, I try to back up and say to myself "isn't that cute," or equivalent. No reason worrying about somebody else's level of self consistency that doesn't meet mine. There are probably people who find my required level of consistency totally lacking as well. Actually, later versions of myself often find earlier versions lacking self consistency, hence I fairly often delete my own posts.

After I am no longer worrying about said person or group, I can move on to the more pragmatic actions.