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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 282
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 282 |
... The main concern is equity of access and none of the cases have been about the DoE requiring a school to remove tracking or honor classes. ... I wasn't reacting to the Chester Finn article but to parts of the DOE press release, such as this snippet: "As part of the agreement, which the district agreed to enter prior to any OCR compliance determinations, the district committed to take specific actions to ensure that it is providing an equal opportunity and equal access for black students to participate in its college and career preparatory programs, in particular its advanced courses and enrichment programs, IB program, AP courses, honors courses, and dual enrollment courses." While the words sound fine at face value, those of you who work in highly regulated fields immediately understand that the best thing for the school district to do is to lower the standards for the AP courses. The regulators have already presumed guilt, and they will be happy if the percentage of minority students increase, and they will be highly unhappy if the school district comes back with a "we reviewed our procedures and decided they are fine and non-discriminatory as they are."
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,856
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While the words sound fine at face value, those of you who work in highly regulated fields immediately understand that the best thing for the school district to do is to lower the standards for the AP courses. The regulators have already presumed guilt, and they will be happy if the percentage of minority students increase, and they will be highly unhappy if the school district comes back with a "we reviewed our procedures and decided they are fine and non-discriminatory as they are." Have you ever worked in a highly-regulated field? Because I have and do, and I immediately understand no such thing.
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 602
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Joined: Jul 2014
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There should be equal access to advanced programmes. If your grades meet the criteria or are within the top x students for x places them you should get in. The problem is that too few low-income students meet the requirements for AP or Honors-level classes. The problem is not that the classes use an application process and that there is discrimination in admissions. This. Some have posited that the problem should be solved by making sure that the criteria are rigorous and objective. Experiences in the various states of Germany (the country mentioned in the Atlantic article as having the most intricate and established tracking systems) have shown that the most rigorous and objective criteria are correlated with the best results but with the least SES equity. All correlation and no causation of course, but the few states where access to the highest track is almost equitable by SES are also almost two years behind according to the OECD PISA data. Academic readiness is a problem to be tackled at pre-school level, not when the kids are 17.
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,856
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Academic readiness is a problem to be tackled at pre-school level, not when the kids are 17. The journey to academic readiness begins in the womb, with health care, nutrition, and third trimester speech all noted as positive environmental influences. Their lack, plus parental stress, are all noted as negative environmental influences. All of these are themselves influenced by SES.
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 602
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 602 |
Academic readiness is a problem to be tackled at pre-school level, not when the kids are 17. The journey to academic readiness begins in the womb, with health care, nutrition, and third trimester speech all noted as positive environmental influences. Their lack, plus parental stress, are all noted as negative environmental influences. All of these are themselves influenced by SES. Strictly speaking, it begins with parental education and maternal nutrition LONG before conception...I was looking at it from an education policy viewpoint. There are larger social issues education policy can't ( and IMNSHO, shouldn't, and shouldn't be expected to) tackle, but from preschool age onward, high quality compensatory education policies do have a good track record.
Last edited by Tigerle; 11/26/14 11:17 AM.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 282
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While the words sound fine at face value, those of you who work in highly regulated fields immediately understand that the best thing for the school district to do is to lower the standards for the AP courses. The regulators have already presumed guilt, and they will be happy if the percentage of minority students increase, and they will be highly unhappy if the school district comes back with a "we reviewed our procedures and decided they are fine and non-discriminatory as they are." Have you ever worked in a highly-regulated field? Because I have and do, and I immediately understand no such thing. I have worked in two highly regulated fields, one involving licensed radio frequency communications, and currently in finance. You may want to give the docs another read.
Last edited by mithawk; 11/26/14 12:09 PM.
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,261 Likes: 8
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,261 Likes: 8 |
Strictly speaking, it begins with parental education and maternal nutrition LONG before conception... Agreed. There are larger social issues education policy can't ( and IMNSHO, shouldn't, and shouldn't be expected to) tackle Agreed. However, age of the mother, relationship status of the mother, birth weight of the baby are all factors in the child's future success, including academic and relationship success. from preschool age onward, high quality compensatory education policies do have a good track record. Do you have a source to share, which informed this belief? Here is a source which does not seem to agree with your assertion: The Head Start Impact Study (HSIS) has shown that having access to Head Start improves children’s preschool experiences and school readiness in certain areas, though few of those advantages persisting through third grade(P uma et al., 2012). and The frequency of statistically significant differences in impacts by quality levels is no greater than one would expect to observe by chance alone when no true differences exist. The one exception to this pattern is the discovery that, for 3-year-olds, lower exposure to academic activities is associated with more favorable short-run impacts on social development. There is almost no indication that either high or low quality Head Start in any dimension leads to Head Start impacts that last into third grade for either age cohort, consistent with the overall findings of the Head Start Impact Study not disaggregated by quality level. A high level of interaction and child-led exposure to academics can be provided outside of the context of a preschool program. For example, in a family environment, informal play group, etc.
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Joined: Oct 2011
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I have worked in two highly regulated fields, one involving licensed radio frequency communications, and currently in finance. You may want to give the docs another read. No thanks. I don't see the value in trying to parse a DoE press release as if it were a policy document, for reasons that should be obvious (it ain't policy). And I'm certainly not interested in the low-EQ, un-nuanced, absolutist interpretation of a non-policy document from National Review. Having worked for companies in both of those fields you mentioned, plus food service, I still find your observation that compliance audits are "guilty until proven innocent" to be incomprehensible. Do you feel the same way if, for instance, in the process of operating a motor vehicle, an officer asks to see your driver's license?
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,640 Likes: 2
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Joined: Feb 2010
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A high level of interaction and child-led exposure to academics can be provided outside of the context of a preschool program. For example, in a family environment, informal play group, etc. Yes, if parents are informed and motivated: To Help Language Skills of Children, a Study Finds, Text Their Parents With Tips By MOTOKO RICH New York Times November 14, 2014 With research showing language gaps between the children of affluent parents and those from low-income families emerging at an early age, educators have puzzled over how best to reach parents and guide them to do things like read to their children and talk to them regularly.
A new study shows that mobile technology may offer a cheap and effective solution. The research, released by the National Bureau of Economic Research this month, found that preschoolers whose parents received text messages with brief tips on reading to their children or helping them sound out letters and words performed better on literacy tests than children whose parents did not receive such messages.
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,261 Likes: 8
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text messages with brief tips on reading to their children or helping them sound out letters and words 
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