Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments 9 year old failing 4th grade not sure what to do.

You've already received great advice above, but I'd add one thing here - don't assume that a child is sitting and not doing anything simply because they aren't given directions. There are so many things in what you've written that sound like a child with an LD, and even this is one of them - the ability to seemingly work without effort on one assignment yet be stumped by another, and the "look" of sitting and doing nothing. I can't tell you how many times I saw my ds with that look, and how many times his elementary school teachers thought he wasn't trying simply because he didn't *look* like he was trying.

I can't tell you if what you're seeing is dysgraphia or not, and really, it's probably too early in the game for even you to know. I'd watch closely while your ds goes through RTI and his evaluation and see if you can make sense of when he's challenged vs when he's able to complete his work. Also be sure to ask for a thorough evaluation for LD, not just tell the school he needs to be evaluated for dysgraphia. It might be dysgraphia, but there are so many overlapping symptoms of LDs it's really tough to tell without testing etc.

Best wishes,

polarbear

DD9 was failing in 4th grade math last year. (Everyday Math.) I called over to the local high school and asked the calculus teacher if she had a girl who enjoys math and would like a tutoring job. She had several!
Once a week we met with this tutor (who was just lovely btw. Pretty, smart, a cheerleader, lots of friends, LOVED math!) and she sat with dd doing homework and going over multiplication tables.
We found that DD just needed someone who wasn't emotionally involved to sit with her for her homework. She shut down for dh and I each time we tried to help.
DD is loving math this year and is doing well! We still have a tutor for her once a week just to make sure that she is keeping up. It is well worth the $10 an hour!

Similar situation: 9 year old 4th grader at a gifted school (different state) hates the literature class and just won't do any in-class assignments. We are trying to meet with the principal and teacher and not getting very far--they say they will differentiate but they don't really understand that additional assignments about a book that my daughter is "done with" don't really help. It's difficult though because I don't think they believe she's unchallenged because she just won't produce anything. We have these issues here and there during school and typically if the work gets ramped up, so does her output, but I do wonder about LDs. Based on the original description of Cola's problem, I'm a bit surprised that so many suspect a LD because it sounds like outright boredom to me. In this situation, what are the indicators of a LD?

There are many lists of learning disability indicators found online via web search. This is one from the website of the National Institute for Health (NIH). It can be difficult to tease out LD from boredom, gifted traits, etc. Parents may wish to be aware of possible misdiagnosis, as outlined in this SENG youtube video. There is also a book, Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnoses. Eides' book on The Mislabeled Child may also be helpful.

For a learning disability, Wrightslaw provides guidance for advocacy.

Occupational therapist and psychiatrist called me today. They looked over his work and said they can't diagnose anything only recommend he see an outside specialist. They did however say they reviewed some of the work his teacher gave and his handwriting isn't horrible and they can figure out what he's writing but its pretty tough. They are going to advise his teacher allow him to utilize the computer for typing as much as possible. They also won't do an IEP unless there is a diagnosis or he is in special education. I then asked if they would be able to assess his motor function and they said they can do a full eval based on his motor functions and then only advise if I should seek outside help. Grrrrrrr!

I did ask them about why they can't do anything if he is failing 4th grade math at the moment and they said that unless at the end of the year he has to be held back for failing they do not implement any kind of assistance.

Wow.

Cola, I'll second all of master of none's advice above, and add one thing - it's easy to get caught up in the battle over getting help at school and sometimes that can take the focus off of the larger picture - helping your child. Getting your child what he needs at school is extremely important and worth fighting for, but it's also important to acknowledge that school might not be 100% of the answer, and some of what your ds is going to need may have to come through outside evaluations and therapies. It would be nice to have the answers all wrapped up by the school, but that's just not realistic in terms of an expectation for most kids, not just 2e kids. We have had to put a lot of extra time and unfortunately $ into private therapies and advice over the years, but it was worth every danged minute and penny for us because ultimately that's where our ds received the tools he really needed to access his education and to be successful for the long term.

I hope you'll be able to advocate successfully within school, but also caution you - don't wait for it to happen. The earlier you can get the help for your ds that he needs, the smoother his long-term journey through the world of living with 2e will be.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Cola,

I don't agree with what the school is telling you. You should not need an outside expert to diagnose a learning disability. From what I have read on your threads, your son is having problems with english and math, but no behavioral concerns or other problems (language, sensory, speech etc.)? This would fall firmly in a learning disability camp, and not a medical condition. Have they indicated that they had specific concerns in another area?

I had a similar situation with my daughter at her school. Because she is gifted, and recognized as such, I had a much higher bar to meet in their eyes regarding her difficulties at school. However, since your son is failing subjects, that should be an immediate indication that he is struggling with a learning disability. I did see somewhere that you live in Arizona? I did a quick scan of their Dept. of Education web site and didn't see what I was looking for. In my case, when the school refused to do an evaluation, I filed a mediation request with the State Department of Education. The mediation request required the school to meet to resolve the issue within 30 days of my request. Let me tell you, it was a whole different ballgame after that. That puts the school on a legal time clock for progressing your son's evaluation and requires them to document their decisions or refusal to do additional testing.

You can also file a request for the school to pay for outside testing. They are claiming that they cannot diagnose him with anything? If they evaluated him in an area, and you feel their assessment of him is wrong or incorrect, you can ask them to pay for an outside evaluation. Furthermore, if you get an outside evaluation at your own expense that finds a disability in an area the school refused to evaluate, IDEA would require them to pay for that evaluation as well. IDEA has many of these safeguards to keep the school from stonewalling you.

I don't know if you have special education advocates in your area. I would look into getting one. They tend to be low cost special education experts (in most cases former special education teachers) that you can pay an hourly fee and who will accompany you to any meetings regarding your son. They can really be a good resource in helping you understand the law and deciding what testing is best for your son. I would not settle for a 504 plan if you feel he has a learning disability. Though a 504 would list accommodations for your son, it doesn't have any metrics requiring them to improve his learning problems. In a situation where the school isn't providing appropriate accommodations, progress towards improvement can be difficult under a 504. Imo, a 504 could be okay for accommodations like extra testing time or a behavioral plan for ADHD, but would not be as good as an IEP for a learning disability in a specific area like dyscalculia, especially if the child is failing a subject and already behind his peers.

I second master of none's comment around verbal communication with the school regarding this stuff. Start documenting conversations by email or in writing. If you are going to move forward with this process, you are going to need evidence of denials, poor decisions, testing results, etc. to put pressure on the school.



kitkat24

Just received an email from his teacher when I asked for information as to how he is doing at school:

* work they do at school is not being done or is not being turned in (not homework but class work)
* him and another kid are doing a science project and knows how to build the "experiment" but explain how it works
* "forgets" to bring home something if it isn't directly handed to him and if he isn't told to put it in his back pack. For example we had a daily report coming home about how he did, then all of a sudden we weren't getting it. Teacher told me that he wouldn't pick it up out of his mailbox. But she won't just give it to him and tell him to put it in his backpack as she thinks he needs to be responsible and do it himself.

I have no idea what to do at this point. he does his homework at home, and we have even had him do some extra work that was never completed. We have had "grounded" him, praised him, even told him once his grades are up he can join gymnastics as right now he only does Karate. I don't know what I'm dong wrong. We've tried being harsh, kind, indifferent, hounding him to get stuff done, stood over his shoulder constantly, let him be "independent" in hopes he would WANT to do well in school but nothing is working apparently and I'm at my wits end