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    If this is being internalized by your child and creating a negative change in him which you do not believe you can counter-act with outside activities.... what other schooling options might be available?

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    Cola Offline OP
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    He is now failing to actually do work and turn it in. When he's told to show his work on math problems he says he's stupid and doesn't know how and its too hard. He is doing the very bare minimum in the other subjects and is now crying in class or just being down right defiant. Do we severely punish him? Do we put him in gymnastics like he wants? Do we keep fighting the school? My dd in 1st grade is at 100% in all classes and her teacher just emailed me about her taking the gifted test and for some reason that scares the daylights out of me. Do we put ds in a non gifted class? Its the only gifted class for 3rd and 4th grade.

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    Originally Posted by Cola
    I'm at a loss with no idea what to do. He gets frustrated when he's told show your work and then shuts down for the rest of the day. When he does his math homework at home he does the problem in his head and gets the right answer. But when he's told to show his work using any method he wants he gets frustrated. He is now failing 4th grade and doesn't seem to care about school.

    Sorry Cola - I got side-tracked from the question at hand. blush As a temporary measure, would his teacher maybe accept some kind of basic diagram or drawing? While it might be a bit contrived, it could be closer to his actual thinking processes than the methods used in class. Perhaps you could ask him what he "sees" in his head when he knows the answer, and help him find some way of showing it, as simply/ quickly as possible?

    Some teachers are more flexible than others. With a few, as long as DS could clearly demonstrate that he knew their process and knew when to apply it, they would then let him off the hook. But he had to promise to fully "show his work" at certain key times - like for standardized testing.

    It sounds like your DS's frustration in math is part of a difficult school year for all of you. It may be hard to really resolve outside of that larger context. Is there any chance his teacher would be open to a bit of negotiation about math, as part of a bigger discussion about how to getting a better fit between him and his classroom? For example, in defining what the teacher absolutely *must* see in order to be able to properly evaluate him, and what he can do to meet those requirements while being relieved of excess writing beyond that. And how he can demonstrate his knowledge in other formats.

    After several years of these kinds of discussions, we are only just beginning to learn what we need to ask for, and how. We were not very coherent the first couple of years in trying to explain that with DS's writing problems, excess drill and "show your work" were not just a "boredom" issue for our special snowflake. Writing demands so much energy from him, that requirements to do make-work were painful and de-motivating to the point of creating serious mental health issues.

    Another challenge we've found is that our teachers really want to keep the learning in the classroom (too many parents in our neighbourhood doing the work for our kids, I suspect). But this makes it really hard for us to help scaffold. Only after the year's worth of work came home last June did I realize just how much time and effort DS's grade 4 teachers had put in to accommodating his writing deficiencies. If they had worked with us and let us help with more of the work at home, we could have reduced that burden on them. (With 20-20 hindsight, they might have chosen differently!)

    So what I am trying to say is that it's in the teacher's best interest to let you help and find ways you can scaffold. And to work together to pick some key battles, and agree on what can be let go for the moment. To identify some short and longer term success measures, and how you'll know if you get there. And to really see if you can agree to work together. Alas, I am speaking more from hindsight than experience myself, but I hope my learning the hard way is of some help. It sounds like you're fighting all the battles in every direction all at once - I imagine you must feel seriously under siege right now.

    Grade 4 was a brutal year for us. We learned a lot, all the hard way. Abilities and disabilities both seem to skyrocket, dragging the kid in opposite directions, simultaneously. Hang in there, Cola! We're with you, and it will get better.


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    each of us would have different opinions and approaches to the same scenario, so ultimately you will need to do what you feel is best within your constraints. Punishment for this is not really going to address the root problem. What do you want him to get out of school? I think you need to answer that question - what is important about your son going to school - and this particular school - now? Down the road? what benefit will you get by letting him do gymnastics? not doing gymnastics?

    quite frankly - it sounds like a really, really bad fit - either with the teacher or with the school. if it were me, I would be yanking my child out and figuring out either another school or homeschool. But I also live in a state that is not difficult to homeschool and I have the resources to know I can do this. And I am more inclined to just say "screw it, we are done with you, good bye" than try to fight what looks like a long, painful battle that won't net me much gain but may lose too much time in a toxic environment. We know kids grow up fast, and the sooner you address this apathy to school - and learning - and at a younger age, in my mind, the better the long term prognosis for the person in question will be.


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    Cola Offline OP
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    He went to three different schools in 2nd grade before being accepted into this program which is supposed to be the best in the area. This year he finally has friends and is socially accepted amongst his peers. That's why we haven't pulled our kids yet but have been looking into it.

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    Quote
    Do we severely punish him?
    No. You may wish to read A Parent's Guide to Gifted Children.

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    Do we put him in gymnastics like he wants?
    Yes. He needs to see himself as successful. He also needs to have his sense of control affirmed: work hard, see positive results.

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    Do we keep fighting the school?
    You may wish to look into positive approaches to advocacy. There are many threads and resources on this topic, including this post. Has the school expressed what they believe to be the root cause of his low performance? Is there a possible learning disability?

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    My dd in 1st grade is at 100% in all classes and her teacher just emailed me about her taking the gifted test and for some reason that scares the daylights out of me.
    Yes, that is a frequent parental reaction. Still, it is better to know than to not know. Theoretically, LOG would imply a different approach be taken as gifted kids tend to have different educational needs.

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    Do we put ds in a non gifted class?
    No, as this might tend to lead to more repetition and an even slower pace.

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    He went to three different schools in 2nd grade
    Reflecting on the issues which led to the previous changes in schools may yield important insight into the current situation?

    There are many resources and threads on choosing a school, including this article from the Davidson database.

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    Cola Offline OP
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    Thank you so much for all of this information!

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    That box method is just another algorithm though. It doesn't really advance your knowledge of maths once you can break the number up. Any method with that number of steps needs a checking method as there are many.places to make an error.

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    OK... I haven't followed this whole thread so I don't know if this is a repeat.

    What I did in a similar situation (6th grade & again last spring) was take my child to a psychologist. There are a ton of different things that could be causing these problems. At this point you child is VERY UNHAPPY at school, quite possibly depressed and my opinion is you need an outside evaluation of what is going on. You may have a 2E situation. I only just got DS15 an evaluation this summer. Unfortunately this is usually very expensive unless you can get insurance to cover it. You could try and work with the school and see if they will evaluate him.

    Despite my son's school not being a great fit academically, I am still trying to make it work because it has been good for him socially. And I'm taking a 15 year old in High School. So I can see why you might want to try and make it work.

    Yes to enrolling him in gymnastics. He needs something to succeed in and do you really think at this point gymnastics is going to be the carrot that makes him turn in work at school?

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