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    Joined: Jun 2008
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    RPM9 Offline OP
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    [quote=Kriston]

    So please correct me if I'm understanding wrong: you think schools have to IQ test all kids in order to ID GTness, and only IQ test?
    [end quote]

    IQ, yes.

    ALL kids? no.

    Kids are flagged to be tested and they either test in or they don't. That's your 1-2%. And, yes, parents can flag their own kid.


    "Too often we give children answers to remember rather than problems to solve." -Roger Lewin
    RPM9 #20677 07/20/08 08:51 AM
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    In our state, kids are required to be tested. By law. All kids.


    Kriston
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    RPM9 Offline OP
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    Originally Posted by Kriston
    In our state, kids are required to be tested. By law. All kids.


    I'm missing your point.


    "Too often we give children answers to remember rather than problems to solve." -Roger Lewin
    RPM9 #20681 07/20/08 08:58 AM
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    Kids AREN'T "flagged to be tested." ALL kids are tested for GT in 3rd grade. Every last one of them. The state law requires it.

    It's a basic difference in method between your state and mine, and it is mandated by law. Your state can pick and choose which kids are tested. Mine can't.

    Services for GT kids aren't mandated, but GT ID is.


    Kriston
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    RPM9 Offline OP
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    All kids are tested, in the time frame that the school dictates, but if a parent has a kid coming into K she can request the testing be done early for whatever reason.

    Our school flagged DS to be tested in 2nd grade. It all depends on the kid. Some roll along and test when general testing is done. Others need testing much earlier.

    My point is that a teacher or parent can flag a kid apart from what the system dictates.


    "Too often we give children answers to remember rather than problems to solve." -Roger Lewin
    RPM9 #20685 07/20/08 09:23 AM
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    Okay, I woke up late today!

    Just wanted to throw this in: Our district gifted coordinator is likely to tell you that the average IQ for all children in the district is 120.
    I haven't heard 40% gifted but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that claim in this community.
    It is an affluent community that is hard to get into because it is cost prohibitive. We purchased a very modest house 5 years ago because we heard the schools were very good and even though we hadn't had formal testing yet, we know the girls were very intelligent because they did some unusual things as babies.
    People move here not just from the area but from states far away, my pediatrician tells me, for the services. Especially the gifted services.
    Luckily for us, it's not rare to run into other HG kids which has been nice.
    Because they seem to think so many kids are gifted and have an excellent program which they think is all locked up, they do not offer individualized curriculum for kids because they don't understand kids who can complete all elementary requirements within a year or two like my daughters.


    RPM9 #20689 07/20/08 09:59 AM
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    Originally Posted by RPM9
    All kids are tested, in the time frame that the school dictates, but if a parent has a kid coming into K she can request the testing be done early for whatever reason.


    So your system *IQ* tests all kids at some point--regardless of whether anyone suspects GTness? Or only the ones flagged by parents or teachers? This post sounds different than your other one, so I'm trying to clarify.

    I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I'm still not sure you're following me. Every last child in our system is tested for GTness in 3rd grade. 100% testing. All kids in the system. That's why your statement that "not all kids should be tested, only those flagged" doesn't work in my state. All kids MUST be tested.

    Teachers and parents can also request earlier testing in our system. DS7 was IDd by his K teacher for testing, so he was IDd early. So that's no different than your situation.

    Our mass testing might explain some of our high GT numbers, now that I think of it. Our system will presumably catch more of the borderline or underachieving cases...assuming the group IQ test isn't too lousy.

    Thanks for the pitch-in there, kcab. That's sort of how I think about talent, too, but it seemed like RPM9 was going another direction, making some clear, strictly demarcated distinction between G and T that I didn't get. I'm just trying to follow along! Meanwhile, we'll look forward to your return! smile


    Kriston
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    Kriston and I are in the same state and I know that our community has very high levels of kids who are identified as gifted. The last report from our gifted teacher (to a parent conference) claimed that 50% of the total number of kids had been identified as gifted. (If you have x number of kids in the district and y number of gifted kids then y/x is 50%.) But careful... That does not means that half of all of the kids are gifted. It means that if my kid is gifted in math and receives a math pull-out class, and a reading pull-out class, and he is in a High IQ cluster, then he is counted three times. So that inflates the numbers quite a bit. (good for the back-patting aspect of the district!)

    And so yes, all kids are tested by generic tests like the CogAt and IBST in third grade. I believe that you have to be in the top 95% in either math, or reading, or have scored a 130 or above on the IQ test to be in the gifted program. So they count kids who are good at math or reading along.

    I found out that the average IQ of our students is just under 120. So you only have about a 10 pt. IQ difference between the normal kids and the gifted kids in the High IQ group. Our neighborhood seems to match fairly well to 'Neato's in that people move here because of the schools. And the community prides itself on the quality of the schools. But... They design their classroom instruction and pace to be quite challenging for the 120 IQ kids, and they have pull-out classes for the kids who are labeled gifted. (If you can call spending 8 weeks planning a birthday party for a centennial at a local senior citizen center as a cluster pull-out class... <fume, fume, fume!>
    (Can you tell that I'm not happy with our pull-out classes?)

    But they make no differentiation between LOG. I keep trying to point out to someone (anyone!!) that if 10 pt. separate the ND kids from the GT kids (and they should get extra instruction), then what do you do with kids who are 10 pt and beyond the gifted kids!!! mad

    Okay, that is my very first time (I think!) of using the mad icon. But I really get infuriated with the blank stares that follow that statement.


    Mom to DS12 and DD3
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    Originally Posted by ebeth
    Kriston and I are in the same state and I know that our community has very high levels of kids who are identified as gifted. The last report from our gifted teacher (to a parent conference) claimed that 50% of the total number of kids had been identified as gifted. (If you have x number of kids in the district and y number of gifted kids then y/x is 50%.) But careful... That does not means that half of all of the kids are gifted. It means that if my kid is gifted in math and receives a math pull-out class, and a reading pull-out class, and he is in a High IQ cluster, then he is counted three times. So that inflates the numbers quite a bit. (good for the back-patting aspect of the district!)


    Interesting. I'm not sure if this multiple-counting of the same kid is what's going on in our district or not. Hmmm... Must do some research, as that does change things significantly!


    Kriston
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    "Figures often beguile me," Twain wrote, "particularly when I have the arranging of them myself; in which case the remark attributed to Disraeli would often apply with justice and force: 'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'" [1]

    Mark Twain (1906-09-07). "Chapters from My Autobiography". North American Review 186. Project Gutenberg.

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