Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment How many times to test?

I would imagine the district is keeping current on the research on bilingualism and second language development, including the median years to cognitive academic language proficiency, which is what is assessed on the kind of measure that shows up in gifted screening. The work of Jim Cummins has been around for decades, and continues to be the foundation of most thinking on second language acquisition. Granted, the trajectory may be somewhat different for the gifted than for NT ELLs, but the generally accepted range is 5-7 (some say up to 10) years to CALP, even though surface/social fluency (BICS, or basic interpersonal communication skills) can occur as early as 2 years in. How this all interacts with the language learning window in preschool and primary-age children is another factor.

Moving on to your actual question!

Given the usual years-to-BICS and years-to-CALP, I would say that re-testing after two to three years of formal instruction in English monolingual settings would make sense for a presumed GT kid. (Assume a verbally-gifted child makes progress in English acquisition at a rate proportionate to his verbal gift, so say, at least 1.5 times the pace of an NT age-mate; five years divided by 1.5 is about three years. A nonverbal-only gifted child won't reach the cutoff score in verbal testing anyway, so we won't worry about the slower pace of English acquisition.)

This doesn't, of course, account for the cultural differences in early environment which might be correlated with ELL status, and which will likely not be overcome as easily in three years of schooling. There is a reason other systems (notably LAUSD, largely as the result of lawsuits) use matrix reasoning tests (Raven's, NNAT-2), which have evidence supporting more equitable, less-culturally-laden, selection outcomes.

Thank you aeh.

The school district is aware that the majority of the student population is bilingual (but not ELL). In my child's first grade class, one was a non-native speaker and 18 out of 27 were bilingual. The school district is clearly not making an exception for the majority of students. They know these students are bilingual and they know that most bilingual students are not ELLs in this case.

"This doesn't, of course, account for the cultural differences in early environment which might be correlated with ELL status, and which will likely not be overcome as easily in three years of schooling."

I'm not concerned about this. My child is not an English Language Learner, she is bilingual, having had exposure to her second language for three years in an immersion but not full-day environment. However, her academic English might have been lacking, so I am hoping that she has made up for that IF she is gifted in that area.

She is certainly doing well.

" There is a reason other systems (notably LAUSD, largely as the result of lawsuits) use matrix reasoning tests (Raven's, NNAT-2), which have evidence supporting more equitable, less-culturally-laden, selection outcomes."

Yeah, I don't know why they don't use these, but I believe last year was the first year they used any IQ test at all (rather than achievement tests). The gifted program is relatively new here. I will keep those in mind if I get a chance to be on a committee.

Why not test if you think that her scores may improve? It may be two days but it isn't as if they will spend the whole two days testing her. She may also enjoy missing the regularly scheduled classes.

You are overthinking this. Make your stand, but not at your daughters expense, and get your DD into the gifted program that she needs. if you really wanted to go all the way in making sure your DD does not have any advantage that other kids have, you'd have to put her into the absolute worst school in the district, put her in front of the tv, feed her junk, beat her daily and get drunk (and find a man to sexually abuse her). What BS, you are shouting? Just a matter of degree. Every single gifted program in the world will be primarily filled with advantaged kids, for reasons of nature and nurture advantages theses kids have that you do not want to change, will not change and ought not to change. I gather that you just could not bring yourself to ask the district to exempt your daughter from a requirement that she missed by ONE point, for a legitimate reason, to leave her in an environment that does not meet her needs? Not fair to your daughter, who is your primary responsibility.

I felt like THAT MOM when I put down DS name for private school. I passionately believe in socioeconomic integration, but I also know that the public school we were zoned for could not meet his needs, and he would NOT Have found friends, and been deeply unhappy (I know the road not traveled, because I speak to mothers who could not or would not travel ours, and their kids are very lonely. )

At some point (as soon as I regularly get a good nights sleep again) I will enter the political fray and fight for SES integrated schools AND proper ability grouping for clustered gifties. But until then, I need to use my energy to move DS through elementary with the least harm done (private school is just about adequate, not perfect, and we may need to accelerate him into gifted middle school). How about reaching out to the
ELL kids families and help them find good educational options for their kids?

Sorry, I realize I have been harsh, probably precisely because I have. Struggled with similar issues and made different choices, so forgive me if you feel that I have made assumptions and been unjust in my ranting.

I understand not wanting to cheat the system IF she does not legitimately belong there. If you are not sure, one thing you could do is some sort of outside testing (or ask if they can do an alternate test like the Ravens). DD did horrible on the school's CogAT test because of her ADHD. She was really young when she took it (had just turned 7), and it was a timed version. I took her to get private testing so I would know one way or the other what her IQ really is. If she had scored lower than the cut-off, I wouldn't have pushed the district. DS has outside IQ results that already show he is gifted but the district won't accept them (according to their published policies, at least). Since I already know he is gifted I'm going to allow them to test him their way, but ask for the accommodations he deserves since he has an IEP. At this point it's just jumping through their hoops and I'm going to do what I need to for the sake of my child.

binip, I just want to say that I admire you. I am also interested in your discussion because I believe it could be affecting gifted qualification in my district as well, and I had not been aware of that.