Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment IQ and math

Our DS10 who is scoring above the 99th percentile in math on nationally normed tests such as the MAP, was recently given a WISC and scored in the “high average” range. We were surprised that he didn’t score higher considering how advanced he is in math. He loves math and has learned the standard curriculum up to and including algebra one. Is it possible that the WISC is failing to pick up on certain cognitive abilities related to math?

Look at the "perceptual reasoning index" and see if that score is higher than the others. Then look at the subtests. My kids who are both good at math, scored high on "matrix reasoning" and "picture concepts". Matrix reasoning in particular probably involves abstract reasoning, seeing patterns, etc. If he scored low in certain areas, that could pull down the FSIQ. If there are gaps between scores, the tester can report a general ability index, which just uses PRI and VCI, and relates better to giftedness than the FSIQ. It's also possible for kids to be gifted in some areas and not others, but if he is good in math, I would expect the PRI to be somewhat high.

Like blackcat mentioned, it's helpful to look at subtest scores on the WISC - you may see a pattern of relative strengths that fall in line with math ability.

OTOH, MAP is an achievement test, and from your previous posts, your ds has been working up and at least partway through Algebra I outside of school - exposure to Algebra I concepts (and the concepts leading up to it) may be a large part of the reason he is scoring so high on the MAP. This doesn't mean he's *not* extremely talented at math - but I do believe it is possible to some extent to score higher than your IQ on achievement tests when exposure to advanced learning has occurred.

In any event, I'd move forward seeking out the same opportunities in math for your ds that you would have had the WISC results come out at a higher WISC level - as long as your ds is motivated and enjoys math, keep giving him opportunities to move forward and stay challenged

Best wishes,

polarbear

You might find this explanation helpful. Scroll down until you get to" More Than a Number." It's about talent searches, and it explains the difference between testing in the 99% on grade-level tests and using above grade-level testing to differentiate among those in the 99%.

And there is a recent thread a bit down from this one "SB5 Results" where we speculate on variations of this topic.

The MAP test result shows that your child is advanced in Math for his grade. The question is, how much above average and what level of Math should he be in? One way to answer that question is to take an out of level test in a Talent Search.

If you are able to participate in a Talent Search, and if your son feels okay about the idea of taking a test that is very difficult (it could be fun), I think it may help you understand the other scores and then advocate for the level of math.

I am sorry that does not answer your question, but I hope it helps.

I second the suggestion to have him take an out-of-level test, such as one of the tests being offered through a Talent Search. His IQ score on that particular test sounds like it may be a very low estimate of his abilities.

Isn't MAP out of level? If it is, and there is a norms chart somewhere, you can look at his raw score and figure out what the grade equivalent is...for instance would the average 8th grader have the same score, the average 10th grader? The average 12th grader? The 99th percentile information can be pretty useless because you don't how far off grade level he is just based on that. DS's teacher told me 99th percentile but we didn't know if he was scoring 2 grade levels ahead, more than 2, or what. It turns out his score (in second grade) is what the average 9th-10th grader scores. It doesn't mean we would accelerate him to 9th grade. But it was more helpful info than just knowing 99th percentile for second grade. The test might tell you a grade equivalent if you have a report. If you have raw scores for math, you could see if you can find it online....some sort of norms chart, listing various percentiles for each grade, like 25th, 50th, 75th, etc.

Also, one more thing about the WISC. It's just one test and it's measuring just certain aspects of ability and gives you a general idea of his cognitive ability. I would take it with a grain of salt.

Yes, MAP is out of grade level, but with the caution that it may not be presenting higher level material. Like my eight year old's score says he scored higher than two thirds of people who have completed Algebra 2 does not mean he is ready for calculus (and when my DS tells you otherwise, don't believe him.)