Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Old news that's new to me: Justin Chapman

Has anybody else here heard about this? I'm wondering how it turned out...

http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/justin/index.shtml

It's a very sad story and one that has made people suspicious of many legitimate PG kids. The boy's mom used to post at another (now defunct) message board for parents of PG kids. She did some very unethical things and caused a lot of suffering. Last I heard, J was in foster care and doing better.

Deeply saddening. I think I have read about this somewhere, but not in so much detail. Besides being sad that report was a little scary on some level.
Lorel, what's your take? Was this a boy who was just not PG and the mom was maladjusted and pushed and fabricated?
Or is he really PG and shut down due to all the pressure?
It's troubling for sure.

I was most surprised by Linda Silverman's involvement.

I usually don't like to talk about other people's children. However, I will say that I "met" Elizabeth online several years ago, and that she appeared to be a typical PG parent. It was very shocking when all the news about fudging test scores came out. I do know that one mom in particular felt taken advantage of, who Elizabeth emailed privately. They exchanged information about their kids, and E used examples of the "real" PG boy to attempt to support her claim of how PG her son was.

I never met Justin, but I did read his web site. "The Justin Report", I think it was called. He talked about age discrimination and other issues.

I do think that Justin had to be pretty darned bright to memorize so many answers and to fool so many people. My thought is that he was/is gifted, but just how gifted, I could not say.

Is there any real evidence that the initial IQ tests were inaccurate or fake?
Obviously he could have refused to participate in the later test. Or perhaps he was too mentally distressed to "perform".
Either way, the article made it sound like he wanted out.
I think of that number as a measurement of what the child is capable of producing intellectually. There could be a variety of reasons the child would not perform academically as expected. That doesn't necessarily mean the first test (if not faked or course) was never accurate.
The whole story kind of freaked me out a little. Was she really doing nothing wrong and the child developed a tragic mental illness?

Was she the ultimate creator parent who took a special and unique boy and just pounded him to mold him into something she wanted until she literally broke him?
Is that really possible? I actually know a mom like that and she scares the c**p out of me.
I've started to actually fear for her children and this article kind of put a fine point on it.
And then you gotta think, what am I doing with my children? Not doing enough.....well, Terrence Tao states that talent can diminish if not nurtured..
Pushing them too much/too fast......also can harm.
It's pretty nerveracking to find a middle ground. I think I'd rather err on the side or not providing enough rather than pushing them to far.
How do you know if you are pushing rather than providing appropriate pace? It seems as if I have a good grip on that. Everyone seems happy around here. But didn't J also appear happy for the most part until right before he broke down?

Heavy stuff......

p.s. you are right, Lorel, we should not be discussing children. But I think the mom is fair game, especially because it seems she thrust both her and her child into the spotlight. If she hadn't I would have never heard of him or her and would not be discussing the issue at all.
I do feel okay discussing it in an attempt to use it as a cautionary tale. It may be callous to use J's pain in an attempt to make better decisions as parents in this arena. Hopefully we can look at it as a story to help parents proceed carefully when dealing with profound giftedness in children.

incog,

I completely know how you feel when you're in middle ground mode--it's constant re-evaluation, creative thought (double checking that you're neglecting needs and ways to address them). I try to plant ideas with my kids of possibilities, not that I necessarily would pursue, but so they give it thought and maybe figure out something they wanna do.

The whole story was very moving and I feel sorry for both mom & kid. Mom could have believed she was working her butt off to help him, against all the forces (how I feel sometimes). But I think a key message is to keep out of the limelight. Good reason for homeschooling. People don't like to think a kid is extremely smart, especially if they have very smart kids themselves (our counselor and our math teacher seem to always revert to talking about their kids for LONG times, even when we're in official meetings about my kid). I think it makes them want to bring you (me) and my kid "down to earth". Of the teachers & administrators I interact with, they prefer the "secret" smart kids...ones that always were good students, but didn't raise their hand and know everything in class, mom's never made waves or advocated for more or advanced stuff--then one day they take a big test and surprise everyone with amazing scores.

I feel I've actually put my son at a disadvantage in high school by advocating for him. Everyone labeled me "pushy mom" and thought of my kid as poor victim (of course he was the one who asked for help because everything was so "stupid").

OMG, thanks for responding cym. I was starting to feel a bit nuerotic as if I was in the minority worrying about this stuff.

Last year I did compel my daughter to tell the teacher herself she was having distress over not having enough to do.
I was so sick of being thought of as a hot house parent, I'm sure K teacher has convinced herself that I am....nother story.

Things did change with the school for the better after she did, though.

"I think it makes them want to bring you (me) and my kid "down to earth". Of the teachers & administrators I interact with, they prefer the "secret" smart kids...ones that always were good students, but didn't raise their hand and know everything in class, mom's never made waves or advocated for more or advanced stuff--then one day they take a big test and surprise everyone with amazing scores."

This is such a mis-guided attitude that concerns me not only for my kids but for other gt kids as well. Great for the child who had great coping skills and was able to sit there for how many years...... How many other children with different temperments with great potential tuned out and turned off.

((shaking head in frustration)))

My DH, for one!

And I spent my whole school career reading novels behind my schoolbooks and writing notes to boyfriends.

Not the best use of my time...