Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links


Learn about Davidson Academy Online - for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S. & Canada.

The Davidson Institute is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Fellows Scholarship
  • Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute

  • Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update Newsletter >

    Free Gifted Resources & Guides >

    Who's Online Now
    0 members (), 302 guests, and 42 robots.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    the social space, davidwilly, Jessica Lauren, Olive Dcoz, Anant
    11,557 Registered Users
    December
    S M T W T F S
    1 2 3 4 5 6 7
    8 9 10 11 12 13 14
    15 16 17 18 19 20 21
    22 23 24 25 26 27 28
    29 30 31
    Previous Thread
    Next Thread
    Print Thread
    Page 9 of 12 1 2 7 8 9 10 11 12
    Joined: Mar 2010
    Posts: 615
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Mar 2010
    Posts: 615
    Originally Posted by ColinsMum
    her maths scores moved remarkably little.

    Just curious, do you know the actual numbers? On her website she claims her overall score increased a lot, but she doesn't break it down.

    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 5,181
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 5,181
    Originally Posted by ColinsMum
    Somewhat against the point I made earlier, and in favour of "ability to benefit from test prep is itself g loaded" anyone who didn't follow The Perfect Score Project the first time round might like to read up on it:
    http://perfectscoreproject.com/about-the-perfect-score-project-2/
    This professionally competent woman devoted a year, essentially, to prepping to a perfect SAT score. I assumed she'd do it, and I think she assumed she'd do it. She didn't; her maths scores moved remarkably little. Tbh I still can't really absorb this, and tend to wish I'd had the chance to prep her myself!

    Testing doesn't just test ABILITY with the material, though-- that's the missing link there. There's no way to modify one's base processing speed or working memory; that's how I explain it.

    DD and I neither one are capable of a perfect 800 on the SAT-M. DH is.

    On any given day, though, she and I both can do it on the verbal sections. I'm not convinced that this is entirely the result of better verbal skills as compared with math ability, either-- (it's just a matter of the test itself being a hostile environment for doing rapid calculations extremely accurately for us), and not impacting our verbal abilities negatively in the same manner.

    Unlimited time and ideal conditions DO result in perfect 800's for her and me both, for whatever that is worth. But that isn't what the SAT is like when you actually TAKE it.

    It's grossly unfair, but someone who has a better working memory than I do, or simply doesn't make the stupid arithmetic errors under pressure-- can outscore me every time. {shrug} It is what it is. It doesn't mean anything at all about my math ability, by the way-- I certainly mastered math through trig and well beyond.

    Anyway-- that's my explanation for why her scores didn't budge much. You can only move them so as to optimize them for your own innate limitations within the test format. For a lucky few, their understanding and approach are the limiting factors. For the rest of us, we'll eventually reach a point of diminishing returns re: prepping.


    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
    Joined: Sep 2008
    Posts: 1,898
    C
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    C
    Joined: Sep 2008
    Posts: 1,898
    Ah, there used to be an overall graph page, but it's gone. Piecing together, maths scores were:

    Jan 510
    Mar 530
    May 530
    June 570
    Oct 560
    Nov 540

    I must have missed one, as she says she took it seven times, but you get the picture.


    Email: my username, followed by 2, at google's mail
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    B
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    B
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    Testing doesn't just test ABILITY with the material, though-- that's the missing link there. There's no way to modify one's base processing speed or working memory; that's how I explain it.

    DD and I neither one are capable of a perfect 800 on the SAT-M. DH is.
    And this is part of the reason why these kids who take the top elite test prep classes, don't actually budge their scores as much as they would like. They do a bit but after a certain point spending more times on prep doesn't seem to help much. Certainly not in proportion to the amount of time they spend. The classes I'm thinking of you have to get a certain score on a pre-test just to be enrolled.

    I don't think I would be able to get an perfect score on the SAT either. I would make too many silly mistakes, too much time pressure. And I think my son will be like that. My DH didn't but I think he just didn't really try, his first try was good enough to get him into "top rated" unviversity so why bother. (SAT prep and scores weren't as crazy then.) He I bet he could have since he did get a perfect score on the GRE.

    Joined: Mar 2010
    Posts: 615
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Mar 2010
    Posts: 615
    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    Anyway-- that's my explanation for why her scores didn't budge much.

    On the other hand, I notice that her web page has a whole lot about room conditions and snacks and comparing prep companies, and not much about . . . actually learning math. While I agree that the ability to benefit from prep is probably g-loaded, I bet it is even way more g-loaded when the person is allowed to be in charge of their own prep. I too would like to see what ColinsMum could have done with her. wink

    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 4,076
    Likes: 6
    A
    aeh Offline
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 4,076
    Likes: 6
    Originally Posted by MegMeg
    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    Anyway-- that's my explanation for why her scores didn't budge much.

    On the other hand, I notice that her web page has a whole lot about room conditions and snacks and comparing prep companies, and not much about . . . actually learning math. While I agree that the ability to benefit from prep is probably g-loaded, I bet it is even way more g-loaded when the person is allowed to be in charge of their own prep. I too would like to see what ColinsMum could have done with her. wink
    Agreed! How hard is it (I say rhetorically) to master trigonometry at the level of the SAT?


    ...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 882
    M
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    M
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 882
    Hmmm. I was going to do zero prep for DD's upcoming test but maybe I maybe I should do something...

    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    B
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    B
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    Originally Posted by Mana
    Hmmm. I was going to do zero prep for DD's upcoming test but maybe I maybe I should do something...
    My opinion is you probably should do something, although something could be as little as buying a book or checking out the SAT's own web-site. So she can read a few tips and work through at least one sample test so she knows what to expect. Depends on what you are trying to accomplish. There are tricks to the SAT that are different from other multiple choice tests.

    Last edited by bluemagic; 07/12/14 04:28 PM.
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 882
    M
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    M
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 882
    Sorry, I should have clarified since the discussion has turned toward SAT from K admission test. My DD is going through admission process this fall for a private K-12 school and their cutoff is around 92%ile to 95%ile, depending on the year. They give an abbreviated of standard IQ test. Maybe I should be panicking since I know many children who are applying have been going to a test prep center since age 2 as well as working with a tutor but I didn't want to go down that road. I didn't want test prep to define her childhood.

    I don't think I can make DD "smarter" in the next few months. So in that sense, there isn't much point in prepping her but I'm not sure if getting her a workbook like this would be too close to cheating for my own comfort level:

    http://www.amazon.com/Gifted-Talent...=8-5&keywords=test+prep++gifted+talented

    ETA: We're also applying to an academic hothousing school that gives IQ and achievement test. I think DD would get in there. The other school also looks more into her social skills and other global readiness and she'd be one of the youngest girls for the application pool. That is why I think she has to ace the IQ test so they'd have a reason to overlook her quirkiness and immaturity. She can be charming and endearing if she wants to but it comes and goes.

    Last edited by Mana; 07/12/14 05:00 PM.
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    B
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    B
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    Originally Posted by Mana
    Sorry, I should have clarified since the discussion has turned toward SAT from K admission test. My DD is going through admission process this fall for a private K-12 school and their cutoff is around 92%ile to 95%ile, depending on the year. They give an abbreviated of standard IQ test. Maybe I should be panicking since I know many children who are applying have been going to a test prep center since age 2 as well as working with a tutor but I didn't want to go down that road. I didn't want test prep to define her childhood.

    I don't think I can make DD "smarter" in the next few months. So in that sense, there isn't much point in prepping her but I'm not sure if getting her a workbook like this would be too close to cheating for my own comfort level:

    http://www.amazon.com/Gifted-Talent...=8-5&keywords=test+prep++gifted+talented

    ETA: We're also applying to an academic hothousing school that gives IQ and achievement test. I think DD would get in there. The other school also looks more into her social skills and other global readiness and she'd be one of the youngest girls for the application pool. That is why I think she has to ace the IQ test so they'd have a reason to overlook her quirkiness and immaturity. She can be charming and endearing if she wants to but it comes and goes.
    No I wouldn't prep for an IQ test. (And didn't my DS15 just took one last week.) I was talking about the SAT. SAT is an achievement test, I would prep for that. Some kids here take the SAT in junior high to qualify for different "gifted" programs so I wasn't sure.

    Edited to add, I just looked at the link and that makes me sad. My attitude to the preschool years is let them play, and it's frustrating to see people put their preschoolers through this stress. Even the one "gifted" school is my area doesn't require an sort of testing for their K program, just an interview. (I should say didn't don't know if it changed.)

    One more thing what I might do with a preschool kid is have them practice their social skills. Tests for preschool/K are usually given one-on-one. And this can hurt a bright but shy/introverted child.

    Last edited by bluemagic; 07/12/14 05:21 PM.
    Page 9 of 12 1 2 7 8 9 10 11 12

    Moderated by  M-Moderator 

    Link Copied to Clipboard
    Recent Posts
    Gifted Conference Index
    by ickexultant - 12/04/24 06:05 PM
    Gift ideas 12-year-old who loves math, creating
    by Eagle Mum - 11/29/24 06:18 PM
    Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5