Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Changes in technology education

Thanks for sharing notnaffnaf. Sadly a lot of this is due to perceptions. For the same reason I suspect that if we were to visit good high schools in Africa or Latin America offering honors Computer Science classes, we will find that they be full of African and Latin American children respectively, not white or Asian ones.

But one of the big issues is they are filled with young men not the young women. For some reason as a society were aren't encouraging our young women to take these classes.

As to race, your point is partially correct. But my school is very multicultural but it's very specific races that take the advanced math & computer science. (European, Chinese, Japanese, Korean & Indian.) Virtual no Hispanic, Persian, Middle Eastern, or Black kids are in these classes. (I am talking heritage here.. MOST of the kids are AMERICANS born here.) I think this mostly comes from their family expectations.

I think it's the reverse. I often read about efforts that specifically encourage girls to go into STEM, but I never read about programs that specifically target boys. If more boys than girls study computer science, that may reflect what they are interested in.

This approach works, btw-- and it is one of the relatively few success stories in STEM as far as retention goes.

Change HOW you teach the material. Don't just "pink" it up, which is both patronizing and insulting to girls with high potential and interests in the subject. KWIM?

The reason we have programs targeting girls is because it has been noticed that not a lot of girls were entering these programs. The percentage of girls enrolled in college programs are down from the 80's. This is something that is engrained in our society and educational system that is a constant struggle to fight. Many parents don't encourage them. Girls are traditionally thought to be not good at math & science. Young girls don't think they are good at these subjects and not encouraged by parents and teachers and the media. Young teen girls see computer science as something the "geeky" boys do in junior high and won't pursue these direction because they worry about how they fit in with their peers.

Sure there are notable people & program working for change. And I see a lot of it on social media because of who I am, but it this is still pervasive in the general society.

Right-- and there ARE efforts to draw young men into fields such as elementary ed, nursing, etc. One perception problem is that once a field reaches some tipping point in gender disparity, it begins to seem "hostile" to the minority gender, and that can snowball to reduce numbers still further.

I don't think that anyone would seriously argue that male teachers or pharmacists are less capable of excellence than women in those occupations. But an all-female workplace that makes a man feel unwelcome is a problem, in and of itself.

Some STEM fields have this problem for girls and women-- when "early exposure" programs aimed at getting girls interested in those fields visit workplaces, talk to those IN the fields, they are seeing mostly male workplaces, and in the US, overwhelmingly WHITE and male workplaces.

Girls think about who they'll be working WITH and who they'll be working FOR. It seems to me that boys think about how they'll appear to others instead. Both things are a problem in gender imbalanced occupations.

It could be due to family expectations, but could also due to teacher and others expectations as well. My point is that this is an issue in the US and similar multicultural countries only. Back in their home countries, I am certain that Africans and Hispanics take advanced STEM classes and do well in them. Some of them also come over here to pursue STEM classes, pay no attention to the 'news' that certain minorities are not supposed to be good at STEM and end up doing well.

Similarly, women in Women's colleges are less likely to be affected by the perception that STEM careers are not for women. This perception that STEM careers are not for women is worldwide unfortunately.

Well, yes, family expectations play a role with computer programming. In the 70s and 80s, computer programming was largely a hobby for boys (and men). My grandfather (electrical engineer) had a computer in the 70s, but only allowed my uncle and male cousins to use it and learn DOS or whatever. The girls in the family weren't allowed. Period. That attitude is still, unfortunately, around today.

There's also the issue that you're interacting with a computer rather than people - which isn't enticing for girls. Notice that women usually interact differently with digital technology than men. This escapes many hardcore CS types (often on the spectrum). It's a social/ communication barrier.

Another issue is that many women (not all) fundamentally do not think in terms of computer programming. I was reminded of this in the winter when I was talking to another homeschooling mother who thinks in code! She literally thinks in terms of IF and Then and can easily visualize code. I'm the opposite. I think in terms of plotting or connecting scattered dots. It's just different.

Also, STEM degrees tend to favor workaholics and those who don't have or want a social life. Academia does as well. This causes a problem for girls because most want to have children and this thought does tend to crop up around puberty. Hard to ignore. So there's the potential of huge sacrifices for girls who go down the workaholic STEM route. And not to mention the part about the nerds and dorks in STEM who may not be viewed seriously as marital material.

I can't compare to other fields and I have (and do) work with some workaholic dorks with no social lives. There are also some companies that are worse than others.

However, in the interest of those with kids (especially daughters) that are looking at STEM careers I thought I'd present the flip side to the coin. Having rare or sought after skills has allowed me (and DH as well) to have amazing flexibility and opportunities. We both worked like crazy before kids (and loved it) but since having our second kid I've been working a 24 hour work week. Four of the guys I work with have also gone part time (and two of them don't even have kids - they just wanted more play time). DH took 3 months paternity leave with each kid and is home for dinner every night. We can work at home and both have flexible hours that allow us to attend school functions. I can't think of a better work/life balance for us.

In University there were a lot of nerds and dorks but when there is a 10:1 ratio it still leaves room for quite a few "normal" guys in the mix. The geek ratio is just as high on the girl side so it also makes for less competition

I agree wholeheartedly with Chay-- and I'd add to that, for those of us who post here, our daughters are likely to find soulmates in those who are equally quirky and whip-smart. They do tend to congregate in STEM, after all. Enriching the pool like that is going to be one of the few ways that an EG/PG person has of locating another compatible person with similar interests and LOG.

We, too, have had the experience of being able to afford a single income (well, not in academia, but anyway) in order to raise a special needs child with a full-time parental caregiver. Our educational attainment and specialized skill sets have allowed that. I was also able to work part time when I wanted to do that, as well, and the flexibility has been great.

It's also true that our daughter doesn't see STEM as a "guy" thing. At all. But this is in large part due to her personal environment-- she grew up in research labs.