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    Joined: Nov 2012
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    This is an interesting opinion piece from the NYT on the disconnect between the messages children of baby boomers have been fed about finding a calling and the reality of building an identity and adult life.


    What is to give light must endure burning.
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    The problem is that people don't want to hear it. It is like saying, eating well and exercising will keep you healthy. People want to eat pizza and watch TV instead.

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    Val Offline
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    As an article about the ill effects of helicopter parenting, it's food for thought.

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    I'm not buying it.

    Blaming the younger generation for being more selfish and less well prepared for adulthood than previous generations is the easy pickings of cultural commentary, and has been since at least the ancient Greeks.

    He reaches for two cultural tropes that are close to hand: "Over-supervised helicopter-parented robots!" and "Self-entitled boomer values!" But he cites no polls or other data that would show that there is actually a change from previous generations on either of these dimensions.

    Young adults today know that they're facing some awful circumstances, and are probably less naively idealistic about their opportunities than the last several generations of Americans.

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    Actually, there IS a distinct rise in narcissistic traits in the generations post-X.

    That's documented. Now, does that correlate with anything else that can be documented?

    Who knows, right? Mechanism, mechanism, correlation fallacy and all that.

    But the fact that young adults are facing terrible job prospects has probably not a lot to do with it either way. The ground HAS changed under them, though whining and entitlement probably isn't serving them well (as a demographic) in light of that set of facts.

    Perfect storm, perhaps?


    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    Actually, there IS a distinct rise in narcissistic traits in the generations post-X. That's documented.
    Not so much. Here is a good intro to the issues with that claim. Skip to paragraph 7 if you're in a hurry. Very briefly, the problems are:

    1) Some researchers find no rise in NPI scores.

    2) The NPI doesn't measure pathological narcissism anyway, but rather a set of characteristics that may be more positive, and in moderation may provide resiliance to difficult circumstances.

    3) "Were a narcissism epidemic truly striking the United States, we ought to be seeing signs of it, but we're not. . . . Rates of teen pregnancy, substance abuse, smoking, and dropping out of high school are all down . . . more high-school students are taking difficult courses like calculus and advanced science. . . . And, as far as selfishness goes, evidence suggests that young people are engaged in community service and other civic activities more than before."

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    http://thomasfriedmanopedgenerator.com/about.php

    I wish there was one for David Brooks, because he seems to be heading the same place recently.

    Last edited by JonLaw; 06/15/14 03:05 PM.
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    Val Offline
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    Originally Posted by MegMeg
    "Were a narcissism epidemic truly striking the United States, we ought to be seeing signs of it, but we're not. . . . Rates of teen pregnancy, substance abuse, smoking, and dropping out of high school are all down . . . more high-school students are taking difficult courses like calculus and advanced science. . . . And, as far as selfishness goes, evidence suggests that young people are engaged in community service and other civic activities more than before."

    Perhaps, but I'm not sure how things like smoking rates reflect narcissism. Ditto for taking calculus. Plus, how much of that civic involvement is in aid of college application fodder? And how much is required by schools?

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    In my experience and observation teen pregnancy, smoking, drinking and quitting school early are fairly strong indicators of low self worth not narcissism.

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    Originally Posted by Val
    I'm not sure how things like smoking rates reflect narcissism. Ditto for taking calculus.
    The point is that there is no evidence for an increase in "narcissism" (however that's defined), selfishness, irresponsibility, entitlement, immediate gratification, unwillingness to work for things, poor decision-making, or any of the other various ways that the supposed personality flaw of Gen Y gets described. No matter what measure you use, Gen Y seem to be behaving like pretty responsible young adults.

    Originally Posted by Val
    Plus, how much of that civic involvement is in aid of college application fodder? And how much is required by schools?
    Two-thirds of high school students who do volunteer work continue to do so after high school. There is surely some natural attrition even among those who volunteer for disinterested reasons, so the answer to your question is "something quite a bit less than 1/3rd."

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