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    Joined: Mar 2012
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    I suggest the National Piano Guild Auditions - you can find a local piano school that conducts this exam and enroll your child in it. The guild sends a judge who is a very very experienced music teacher (ours this year was a college professor in piano with a ton of experience) and your child will audition their pieces for the judge and the judge will review every aspect of the music with the child and give advise and comments on how to improve as a musician and pianist. It is non-competitive and highly valuable to a budding pianist.

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    Leyla Offline OP
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    GF2 - I will talk to her about which one she would like to learn. I feel it's time to add another instrument at least. Also, what are your thoughts about flute?

    Bluemagic - will look into chamber music groups, it's something my daughter will be very interested in. As far as our teacher, we really like her, but feel like we will need to switch in the longer term for additional things ie. more performance opportunities, competitions, participating in festivals etc.

    Ashley - I believe our teacher was doing National Piano Guild Auditions, but not anymore. I will bring it up to her to see if she can at least add it next year.

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    Chamber music is a great idea!

    I wonder whether someone else could offer input on flute. There seems to be a greater supply of flute players in the orchestra context, but as with any instrument, a good player is always valuable. But it isn't an instrument with which we have direct experience. Also, it probably isn't good to choose an instrument solely for its scarcity; a young player can end up in a cohort with lots of oboes and few cellos, for instance!

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    If you really want your DD to shine, regular misting with water can help. laugh

    If your DD is practicing piano regularly, making progress, and seems to enjoy what she's doing... where's the problem?

    More importantly... what does your DD say about the situation?

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    Agree with GF2, in that you should not choose based on perceived scarcity- our school currently has a glut of bassoons and oboes, and a healthy horn population; they seem to be trendy at the moment. Much better to choose an instrument that speaks to you (your DD) and excel at it because you love it.

    Can she try out/listen to some various instruments? If your school has a music program that is often how they start. You can also usually do this in a good music store or rental place, and many symphonies offer "instrument petting zoos" where she could get a feel for different things.

    As an aside, one thing to consider is what type of music she is interested in. Things like flute, clarinet, and trombone are all nice because they can play in moats types of ensemble, from chamber to jazz to marching, etc.

    Another thought is that at 8, she may not be big enough (hand size is important for bassoon, for example, general size and arm length for trombone) to play anything she chooses.

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    Originally Posted by Leyla
    As far as goals, I would like her take advantage of her music skills when she applies for college.

    If you mean the possibility of applying to music conservatories, I'd say, again, talk with the teacher. You will want to eventually send your child to a teacher who has had experience preparing kids for conservatories. But at this age it's probably too early. If you mean resume padding, well, it may or may not work, and your child may or may not want to do it...

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    Leyla Offline OP
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    Thank you all so much for valuable information and pointers of things to look into :-) It has been very helpful.

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    Leyla, it's still not completely clear what your goals are-- or what your child's goals might be. I'd offer specific advice on that basis, but don't feel that I have a good handle on what you're asking about. So instead, I'll offer advice to my ten-years-ago self, instead. wink

    Okay, I have a 14yo graduating senior in high school, who was, at your child's age, quite similar, it sounds. She was motivated and clearly gifted at piano, and chafing for more performance time (or so it seemed).

    She lost interest as difficulty increased in the classical and baroque repertoire (which her teacher specializes in)-- her progress wasn't as rapid and for that reason, the rewards were slower in coming, providing her with less motivation. She also was NOT interested in piano competitions.


    We have offered other instruments over the years, because yes, piano is inherently not as good an "ensemble" instrument as some others. However, she's never seriously wanted to quit, either, and she loves to use the piano as a means of coping with emotional intensity.

    She simply likes a different style of music than what she has needed in order to hone technique.

    All of that to say that I'd have been worried about possible conservatory work at 8yo, too, and in the end, she didn't really use it to "pad" her college resume in the least, has done no competitions, and simply ENJOYS playing-- for herself. That's enough, in our opinion, and we feel that she is likely to continue playing, which was our ultimate goal.

    Some ideas to make playing more interesting/exciting:

    * nursing home/etc, in the community, as others have noted

    * musical theater? If you have community theater, special children's events, etc, this could be a GREAT way to expand into 20th century popular music and more improvisational work.

    * composing?

    * Recording-- put up a YouTube channel!

    As for other instruments... what does your child have INTEREST in? What musical genres? Those are considerations. I would say that flute is best for chamber ensemble work in folk or classical genres, but not a lot else outside of symphonic and marching band work. It kind of bites as a jazz, pop, world, or 'social' instrument, truth be told. I enjoyed marching band a ton, but not enough to keep doing it in college.

    Personally, unless my child WANTED to play the oboe, I wouldn't do it. I know no fewer than five parents who have specifically got their kids studying oboe right now-- all of them in high school-- for the express purpose of pursuing a "good scholarship" instrument. {sigh} Only one of those kids is doing it because they simply LOVE the instrument.

    My personal list of less-common but still extremely useful and versatile small instruments includes:

    viola
    baritone saxophone
    alto saxophone
    English Horn
    recorder (for students with interests in traditional/early music)
    clarinet (way less common than it used to be!!)
    trombone (but getting large for smaller kids)
    accordion (yes, really)
    percussion of various types
    classical guitar

    Also-- don't overlook the other related-to-piano instruments-- chimes, marimba, xylophone, harp, etc.

    I'd see what she prefers to listen to and enjoys AS MUSIC, because that will govern so much more of her willingness to practice and tackle difficulty as she grows older. If I knew then what I know now, I'd have had DD play an instrument other than piano, because she really doesn't like LISTENING to piano. She likes listening to plucked string instruments, or reed instruments.

    With a child this age, as others have said, you also have to consider genetic potential (as well as current) physiology.

    Practicing is ideally NOT hard work-- because physiologically, it should be natural to develop good technique just by working WITH your own body-- and subsequently, more or less effortless to practice good technique and ergonomics. That's the kind of instrument-match that I think is ideal for kids, truthfully. Different kids, different instruments.

    smile




    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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    My daughter showed real interest in the piano and we were pushed by a high level Russian method school to start her at lessons before she was 3.5 but we didn't and then they pushed again around her 4th bday and we thought we should so we started. She participated in a concert at 5 and again at 7 and was slated to do the American protoge competition at 8 but she hit the wall and started to hate the piano. I backed off, got another teacher for a year, who wanted to push, so I found another, a jazz musician and he it taking a totally different approach and now she is seriously composing and finding her love of music again. I tell this story because doing piano or violin or cello at a high level requires serious commitment these days. There are too many parents pushing. Her friend, who plays the violin practices at least 2 hours a day weekedays, 4-5 hours weekend days. Plus she takes piano lessons on the side. And she is not good enough for American Protoge, which is the level you kind of need for Ivys to be impressed these days.
    I recommend the harp. It is a different type of instrument but expensive.
    If your daughter really likes it, then I think you should consider a better school and get her evaluated. Perfect pitch, etc to see how much she wants it and wants to apply herself.
    We pushed in the beginning because we thought we should but she didn't love it enough. In hindsight, DD likes the fact she did those concerts but doesn't want to go back to it. But she will sit and work on compositions now, going over chords, writing the notes. So in the long run it worked.
    Also, a good school will allow recitals all the time. DD's Russian school had a recital you join every Sunday afternoon. 10 kids would play any Sunday and so each time you mastered a couple of pieces, you could go play them for an audience. It was a good way before moving on.

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    Leyla Offline OP
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    Thanks Wren for sharing your experience. Given the amount of practice/dedication of other parents (which I respect a lot), I don't know if DD8 has any chance in American protégé(which is totally fine to us). She practices willingly everyday but her practice is around 45 mins. She doesn't even have more time than that to practice. She is in full time gifted program and it itself keeps her quite busy. Given for her love of piano, I guess we will keep it as it is currently (no pushing her). Maybe we will switch to a music school so she has more opportunities to perform.

    I will also look into harp. The only thing with the harp it being very heavy. I wonder if it's limiting because of that to join to school band etc. We will listen together and she will see if she prefers harp.

    Yesterday, I showed her recording of different instruments and she was interested in viola. Maybe She will try it in summer to see if she likes to learn.

    HowlerKarma - Thanks so much for taking time to write. You always give great suggestions. As far as goals, let me try to list (writing clearly is not my strong area, maybe listing can help :-)) So here it is:
    1. Find DD opportunities to play piano for audience (short term goal). She likes to perform to audience and once a year is not enough for her. Got great recommendations about this one here and will look into each one.
    2. Find ways to measure her progress. Playing piano is not enough information for later, playing piano in X level is better information. This is a longer term goal. I am hoping this is going to be used somewhere in college application to list her skills vs. It is why I am after something measurable. (Maybe I am overthinking here :-))
    3. She is interested in music and interested in adding a second instrument, so the goal is finding a second instrument that she will like to practice and give her better chance to participate in orchestras/bands or so.

    Hope it's clear now :-)

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