Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Davidson's ready? Pulling away in math!

My second grader, age 8, received a 243 on his NWEA MAP test scores this spring. As I already have the link to the NWEA site, I am aware how high it is and how he measures up nationally via the 2011 norms, but meeting with the school gave me additional information. At our end of the year meeting to determine if he will continue to get services (he is subject accelerated) the principal indicated to us that he was the highest score in not only the second grade, but the third grade and fourth grade as well. Only one fourth grader scored higher, by three points. We do not know how he scored against fifth graders, because that is all the information the school looked into to accept the skip again this year. There are two classes in each grade, so this was pretty significant information. So obviously my son is very advanced in math, this we are aware of, however I was wondering if you all could weigh in on if he is indeed "Davidson's material" or not or if he is simply advanced? Any thoughts on applying? Where would we go from here? It doesn't appear achievement testing is valued too highly…Further information, my son did take the WISC when he was much younger, to aid in the school taking us seriously for requesting the initial skip a few years ago. DS's IQ was in the gifted range at 139 hitting the ceiling in Perceptual Reasoning, but in my opinion nothing to write Davidson's about. Could this change? He seems to be pulling further and further away. Any suggestions would be appreciated! Many thanks!

Hi isugrads97 - that is a very high score!

DD8 is in 3rd and recently scored just below 250 in math. From what I was told, this was a high score for not only 3rd grade, but very high a couple of grades up.

I think it is hard to tell whether kiddos are DYS material just from their MAP test scores. FWIW, though, DD had scores exceeding the DYS criteria on her EXPLORE and WISC tests this year. So it sounds completely possible to me that your DS is in the same range.

I do think that the EXPLORE test is a nice way to get a better read on your high-achiever. Like others before us, the EXPLORE test results lead us to have a full-IQ test. I think this coming year may be the last year EXPLORE is offered before the Talent Searches switch to a new test, so you may want to sign your DS up as a 3rd grader for EXPLORE. DYS does take EXPLORE.

Was your DS's tester experienced with gifted children? I do think this makes a difference and if you haven't already, I'd check out Hoagie's list of testers. Did he/she calculate a GAI and consider whether extended norms were appropriate? Also, perhaps your DS would perform better on the SB than the WISC?

Wishing you and your DS all of the best!

isugrads- check out the Davidson qualifications. I believe you need- iq, achievement, and portfolio and can choose 2 out of 3 that meet the Davidson qualifications. Keep in mind that iq testing has at best a 95% confidence interval. It's possible that your DS's IQ could be in the Davidson range.

Also, check his GAI. We applied to Davidson based on a GAI that exceeded the 145+ requirement. My DS's full scale IQ was not 145 due to a lower processing score.

I don't know if the NWEA MAP is one of the achievement tests that Davidson accepts. We did the WJIII achievement. Again, not all scores need to be 145+. It can be one broad category or total composite.

Keep in mind that a 139 FSIQ is high- exceeding the 99th percentile. Depending on the size of your DS's school, he could be the *only* or one of the very few with this kind of ability.

If he hit the ceiling in perceptual reasoning, what were his specific scores? You can submit specific scores (it doesn't have to be FSIQ). So you could use his perceptual reasoning score (I think they take verbal, perceptual reasoning, GAI, or FSIQ for the WISC). You could use that plus a portfolio that included the MAP scores if the perceptual reasoning score was sufficiently high.

You all are so unbelievably helpful! Thank you!!! To be perfectly honest, I did not even know what the EXPLORE was! As I look into it, you are able to print out a sample math test, which I will give to him and see how it goes. Hopefully this will give us some indication as to if we should follow through with the actual test. Thank you for that recommendation!

Okay, so the WISC scores below were completed 2 years ago exactly and was done during a time (Kinder) where his teacher's were being very hard on him switching classes during the subject acceleration. They were not on board and were making it tough on him…nice to do to a five year old, right? Poor kid came home crying every day until I pulled him from that situation. So I was never all together comfortable with his score, nor the tester that's simply some guy at our local college pushing out like two tests a year. lol.

We miss the Perceptual Reasoning score by two points. What do you think? Is it worth a reevaluation with someone off the Hoagies list? Is the confidence interval enough to just submit it with a 143 anyway? We did not receive any type of "long" report, just his scores. When I asked about that, the tester had no idea what I was even looking for, so I'm not sure if this would be sufficient anyway.

Perceptual Reasoning
Block Design 17
Picture Concepts 17
Matrix Reasoning 17
Composite Score: 143
99.8%


So if we get either an IQ reevaluation (if needed) or complete the EXPLORE and then submit his NWEA MAP scores as a part of his samples, is this enough? I also have his work through Stanford's EPGY showing his level as a 5.6 and he's in second grade. Would this be something to include as a part of the portfolio?

I truly appreciate all your thoughts, so thank you for taking the time to answer! It is very encouraging! We could really use the wisdom of Davidson's…I hope we are able to make it happen for our DS!

I'm not one if the testing gurus, but these scores are not a full WISC-IV set. There should also be a Verbal Comprehension cluster and a Processing Speed cluster. When I looked at the Davidson site it asked for a full report. I imagine you will need to retest unless you can get the rest of the report from the tester.

I thought Explore was being discontinued?