Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Public school- are these red flags?

Your area sounds a lot like ours. It is a good school district with standardized test scores almost always in the top 1% of the state (same for the two adjoining districts). However, I have yet to meet a kid who was challenged in K. People complain about the lack of challenge in K. Next year, they are going to full day K, so maybe it will be better (though there were a number of not very well thought out issues with full day K).

Academics probably won't be challenging for a while. I know you don't want to hear that, but I think it would be very difficult to meet each kid where they are in math, reading, writing, science, music, etc. There is so much variation in the elementary kids. While things will likely never "even out", the differences are typically not so huge as they get a bit older that they can group/track to form more appropriate placement by HS.

As I read through here, I think that folks would say I was "damaged" by my elementary experience. I am not PG or anything close, but I was reading by age 4, chapter books by age 5. I went to a highly regarded private school, but I recall tracing letters a lot (I was writing stories of a few pages by then) and the most difficult math problem we did all year was 5+5 (because the answer was double digits - all the other addition problems resulted in single digit answers).

I think things have changed for the better now. The problem might be that if you live in a "good district" that there are a number of kids who are beyond K math. Some may be gifted, some may be hothoused, but if I saw one kid get accommodated, then I would want my special snowflake accommodated too. No matter that my kid isn't really all that bright, but I don't want my kid getting behind. As I noted on the MAP math thread, my kid probably messed up her future in math (right through senior year) this morning because I doubt she got 96th percentile (since she refuses to "learn ahead"). I will have to go to bat for my youngest snowflake because she refuses to be hothoused.

NotsoGifted, I am not sure i follow all of your post. Dd4.5 is not just slightly ahead in math but 3 years ahead. So while I can see how a large % of kids in good districts might be 1/2 to a year ahead, I seriously doubt that many are 2+ years ahead. So as long as the district had strict requirements for acceleration, not many parents would be able to demand accommodations for their little snowflake.

So today when I went to pick up dd from her current private school, her teacher and I started talking and I mentioned, for no reason, my frustration with public school and how I may just keep dd in the school for one more year. The teacher said that if I decide to do that, my dd would be very happy in ms. Y's class. Ms.y teaches 1st to 5th grade in a multi age small class of 10 students. I was a bit shocked to hear this and reminded teacher that dd will be in k next year so will continue in her class. Teacher said that she and ms.y have been talking about dd and thinking that she would be a better fit in the elementary class than the primary next year. Teacher admitted that there was not much she could offer next year if dd stayed in her class. I was obviously taken by surprise with this conversation. So I asked her if we can setup a time to sit down and talk about what this would mean. The cynical part of me feels the school is trying to lure us to stay but if it means dd will be happier, then I am okay. Dd of course heard this whole conversation and has been spinning dizzy with happiness singing ," I am going to skip kindergarten. First grade, here I come." I am trying to reel in her excitement, lol!

I understand that she is very advanced in math. Maybe take a look at the older kids in your district - how many take Algebra I as 6th or 7th graders? How many take Calc BC in 11th or earlier?

If there are significant numbers - entire classrooms of kids, not just one or two kids - there may be others who are advanced in math. Our district claims (not sure I believe it) that almost a third of 4th graders score 94th percentile or higher on the Spring MAP math test (and that score would translate to a 75th percentile score for a 6th grader). I do think that there are significant numbers of kids who are two years advanced in math, at least in the "good districts". Now whether they got there by hothousing or by natural math talent is a different matter.

I'm not sure anymore what represents two years ahead. Our district says if the 4th graders score 96th percentile or higher on MAP math (plus a few other lesser requirements), they skip 5th grade math and go into 6th grade math. What the heck is regular 6th grade math anyway, since it doesn't seem to be Pre-Algebra? Fortunately my snowflake pulled a 98th percentile score today, so I don't need to be "that parent".

The problem for your kid is that she is ready for advanced math now, not in 5th grade. Unfortunately, in our district, 5th grade is the first opportunity to go into advanced math. This is DD9's first year at this school, so she may not have suffered years of boredom in math class, but there are plenty of others who have been waiting from K-4th to do some more challenging math.

It is a problem, but not sure how to address it. Our kids went to a private school in early elementary. Not more advanced, but it was foreign language immersion so that helped keep them busy. I really don't see this issue addressed in our district until kids are older (5th grade and beyond). There are always kids in our district that take Pre-Algebra in 5th grade - they just take the middle school bus and take a first period math class, then are bussed back to elementary. Find out if there are accommodations like this when she is a little older. I know that fifth grade seems like a long time away. Good luck with the process.

Not sure if this is what you meant, but be careful about interpreting equivalent percentile scores. They mean, "a 6th grader getting this score on this test would be at the 75th percentile for that age group." They don't mean that "a 4th grader getting this score is two years advanced in math." They just mean "a fourth grader getting this score on this test is really good at the stuff tested here." Out-of-level testing is required to make the advanced-or-not determination.

Now that I think about it, I'm not sure why they even include those equivalent percentile scores. They seem to sow confusion.

Ugh, the only legitimate "problem" on that whole list is that classes don't do math at the same time. That's a real issue, for sure, though still something that can be worked around. If your DD is very independent, could she do math on the computer at her level while the other do K math?

There is a glimmer of hope there at the end. I'll cross my fingers for her. It sounds a bit like presenting actual evidence might get you somewhere.

I realize that the percentiles don't mean my kid can do 6th grade math - heck, I'm not sure she can do what I term 4th grade math. However, I do think most folks in the US would say that an 11th grader or below in Calc BC would be two years advanced. I would consider "normal" to be Calc AB/Calc I as a senior.

What is K math these days? If the 6th grade math my kid will do next year isn't even Pre-Algebra, what the heck are they learning all those years in elementary?

MAP testing is adaptive and shouldn't have this issue to the same extent as many tests. I believe the test does change at the 5/6 boundary, though, so it would be more useful to compare grades 3 and 5 than 4 and 6.

Um. Do we really have to answer that?

Notsogifted, thanks for clarifying. I do get your point now. I don't believe our district offers many ap classes in high school, so not sure if that is because of lack of funding or lack of students who would take them. Also I think I see your point on being ahead and it's meaning. I did my schooling outside US and the math curriculum in my home country is about 1.5 to 2 years ahead of math curriculum here. So I guess it is all relative. The thing with dd is she has learnt all of the math she knows with no formal Instructions. So I can see the difference but maybe educators cannot.

Aufilia, I LOVE your suggestion. School does provide Ixl.com subscription for all kids. I can send in an iPad and dd can easily navigate the site as she has done it at home. Plus, with the site, you can hit on the speaker and have the computer read the question to you. I will definitely add that to my list.

I do have a meeting setup with dd's current private school teacher next week so keeping my fingers crossed about that option as well.